The Rooted Podcast

You're listening to The Rooted Podcast from Bible Society, a Christian organization that invites people to discover the life -giving power of the Bible by translating, publishing, and distributing it around the world. In each series of The Rooted Podcast, we dig deeper into a theme or book of the Bible and explore its message for us today. This is series one, Sermon on the Mount.

All right, welcome to the first episode of the Rooted podcast. I'm really glad you're here. I'm Noel I edit Rooted, which is Bible Society's devotional journal. And I'm here with two of my colleagues who are also on the team behind Rooted, Mark and Esther. So why don't we go ahead and introduce ourselves, Esther? Yes, so I'm Esther. I'm part of the comms team at Bible Society.

It is amazing getting to work on the Rooted Journals and I am really excited to be part of this podcast. Mark I'm Mark and I'm also part of the comms team and I came to Bible Society by way of ministry and journalism. I'm really looking forward to all this. Alright, so we're going to start this first episode talking about the Beatitudes. So that's the very first part of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. It's found in Matthew 5 verses 1 to 12.

And before we do that, we just wanted to start and give some context for Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. So, Mark, would you tell us a bit about that? Yeah, we're really going to enjoy digging into this, I think. So, there are basically two versions of the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount is in Matthew, but there is also a version of that in Luke, which is the Sermon on the Plain. It's got a lot of the same content.

And there are other verses from our Matthew sermon on the Mount, which are also in Luke as well. So, firstly, some people have suggested that the sermon is addressed to the apostles and not to the crowd. It seems to draw a distinction between the disciples and the crowd. So, maybe it was the inner circle that he was talking to.

Others say, well, you know, disciples has a much broader meaning and maybe it was lots of people together. But, you know, so maybe he's just giving the apostles some tools and ideas to develop their ministry. So see what you think, go back and read it for yourself, see what you make of that. I think the other thing, and this is really worth saying, is that it says in Matthew that Jesus began to teach them, not...

He taught them. You know, there's something continuous going on here. And throughout Jesus' life, obviously, He would teach His disciples. And, you in a sense, He's still teaching us today, and we still have lots and lots to learn. So, just a few thoughts as we begin this. Yeah, good. Yeah, okay. So, let's get into it. Let's look at the Beatitudes. So, it's Matthew 5, 1 through 12 that we're looking at.

Why don't we go ahead and just read the passage first all the way through and then we can ask some questions about it. So I'm going to read from the NASB. Starting in verse one, when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on the mountain and after he sat down, his disciples came to him. He opened his mouth and began to teach them saying, blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad for your reward in heaven is great, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." So yeah, really interesting. I guess we want to start a bit with just asking a few questions, one of which is who are the blessed? So some Bible translations actually say happy are.

instead of blessed are. I was reading one actually that says, I think it said blissful. Yeah, blissful are. I've never heard that one. Yeah, blissful are. And so there's a couple different ways this is said. But blessed really, like it doesn't just mean, I think sometimes we use the word we say, oh, bless you to people or we're giving someone a blessing, but it doesn't just mean happy. It's communicating a sense of,

ultimate well -being and distinctive spiritual joy. So it's kind of a deeper sense of deep fulfillment that Jesus is saying. And it's interesting, right? It's interesting because when we look at these things, these aren't the things that you would typically think that these kind of people are the blessed, right? This is kind of backwards, right? Yeah, exactly. I was just thinking that as you were sort of talking about blissful, you know, how can

When you think about how we might define well -being these days, that's a big topic in our society, isn't it? It probably doesn't involve being persecuted. Probably, you know, it acknowledges that we might be mourning or grieving, for example, but it's like, okay, but how can I sort of move from there and heal from there to a place of well -being? So I think it's an interesting statement.

It's kind of counterintuitive, isn't it? A lot of these beatitudes. Yeah, the whole blessedness thing is really interesting. And one of the books on my bookshelf is one that I've really, really enjoyed and learned a lot from. It's called Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by a scholar called Kenneth Bailey, who lived in quite rural areas of the Middle East.

you know, in the sort of middle end of the last centuries, we have to call the 20th century now. And he has all sorts of insights into how people thought really in those days. And one of the things he says is that it's not blessed because something future is going to happen to them. Jesus says these people are already blessed. So he's not talking about rewards.

He does sometimes talk about rewards. He's saying that this is the state of these people now. And that's something that I think we can tease out as we look at one or two of these Beatitudes actually. Right. It's not prescriptive. It's not saying if you are this way, you will be in the kingdom of heaven or you are living. It's saying the people who are in the kingdom of heaven who are living according to that way, they are like this already.

Absolutely. So, yeah, this is what Kenneth Bailey says, you know, there's nothing conditional about it. It just, this is how things are. Yeah, I suppose that's quite encouraging as well, because I think there's that tendency sometimes when you're suffering to think, I must have displeased God or I'm, you know, I'm being punished or tested in some way and I, you know, this is because I've, like, God isn't with me right now.

if you see what I mean, but he's saying, yes, I am. You're blessed even when these sorts of things are happening. It's not a sign of like the removal of blessing. I think that could be, you know, well, it is encouraging to me. So why did Jesus begin with these Beatitudes or beautiful attitudes? Or why has Matthew in writing his gospel decided to place these beautiful attitudes here right at the start?

Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know enough about, I think specifically, Matthew's gospel as to why these are at the very start. I mean, I guess chapter five, close to the start. But I was reading something that was talking about, I guess, the way that Matthew often writes about Jesus or portrays Jesus' story in his gospel is to talk about Jesus as being kind of like the new Moses. And I was reading that one of the ways that he does this in the Sermon on the Mount is the fact that Jesus walks up, he goes up a mountain.

as Moses did to speak with God. But I do think what Jesus is definitely doing here is kind of turning things on their head. So, He's introducing a new value system that goes against the way of the world's value system, then and there. And I think, too, something that's really powerful about the Beatitudes is that I think they also, in a way, go against our world's value system today, obviously. But often, I think they're also a challenge to Christian

value systems that we have that are not necessarily in line with this sermon, the ways that we live as Christians in the church. I think it's a challenge to us as well, which is something that I really personally love about it. Well, I suppose it's important just to sort of say there though that because I particularly, I think, you know, in my sort of comfortable Western life, yeah.

I mean, I may not even feel that I'm experiencing some of these things very much, but that's, you know, we could say that that is more of a Western experience because there's other places in the world where they might relate much more closely to some of these things. Yeah. So yeah, just to, but yeah, I mean, I guess what you're saying sort of as a Christian living now, I suppose the message is like we're not defined by the modern value system.

this is calling us to be, you know, to orient our lives around how Jesus sees things rather than the dominant values of today. Yeah. That is interesting, isn't it? And Noel, I just thought it was really interesting what you were saying about Moses because, well, am I allowed to say this? It's almost a pity that there aren't 10 of these instead of just eight of them because it's almost like a different

sort of Ten Commandments, isn't it? Think of those as being at the heart of the Hebrew legal system. Maybe one of the reasons why it starts with this is that this is the sort of foundation of everything else that Jesus is saying. Yeah, because it's interesting because Jesus says, I didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, right? So, he's fulfilling it, but he is presenting a new way of

of living, right? So, not doing away with Allah, but in a way, it's these new Christians, these new disciples of His who are going to follow Him and believe that He's the Son of God. He's giving them a new way, a new way of life. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's good. What we're going to do next, we're going to go through some beatitudes that we think are interesting, maybe the ones that we thought we could have some interesting thoughts on, discussions on, and the ones that kind of struck us. So, we're going to start with...

the second beatitude, which is in verse four, blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. So why are those that mourn the blessed ones? Yeah, this is really interesting, isn't it? Because this is one of these really counterintuitive ones. If blessed means happy, you can't be happy and mourning at the same time. It just doesn't work like that, does it? So you've got to think about

what's lying underneath this. I thought this was really interesting and I read what Kenneth Bailey had to say about it. One of the things he brings out is that if you're at a funeral, for instance, then there are a lot of tears. Why do you weep? Why do you cry those tears?

you cry them because of everything that you have been given in the life of that person. You know, you really value the happy times that you've had with them. You value knowing them and the gift that they have been to you. And of course, you know, of course you're going to weep because in a sense that's over. But at the same time, you're blessed because you have had that experience.

And so the two things go together. And, you know, it is said that grief is the price you pay for love. And it's a price that is worth paying. You know, it really is. So the blessedness is linked to the mourning in quite a profound way. And I thought that was really helpful.

So I've also read this at times as it's a statement of hope as well in that you might be mourning now, but blessing is coming as well. And I suppose if you read this as a, I think we definitely, you know, we certainly can apply it to sort of specific situations of mourning, but I think it could also be read as sort of a,

a big picture statement as well. Because when we're looking at the state of the world, you don't have to look far to see the effects of sin and injustice. And even if that seems a bit distant to you or whether it is something that's directly affecting you, mourning over that is what we should be mourning over it. We're sort of in tune at that point with the fact that this grieves God that these things are happening and that people are hurting.

So we're mourning over the pain and ugliness in the world. We're looking to be a force for good in the world. We want that blessing to come and we want to be part of it. We're longing for the forgiveness, the healing, the restoration that only God can bring. So I guess you could read it, you know, blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. It's like having the confidence that God has promised that he's going to bring comfort and blessing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the care and the concern and the passion that we have for things to be better, that is a blessing in itself, isn't it? Yeah, I think it really links to the later Beatitude that kind of talks about, you know, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, that they will be satisfied. So it's like those who mourn over whatever it is they're mourning for, there's going to be comfort.

And where we're saying, where's the righteousness, because what I'm seeing is injustice and sin and all of that. You'll be satisfied because God is going to bring about righteousness. So, yeah. Yeah, I think that's good. Also, just thinking about Jesus saying this to His disciples who were following Him and everything that they were about to go through with Him, like seeing His death, seeing His just poor treatment and being persecuted. I think in a way, it's...

It was almost something that maybe they could look back on and say, oh, I'm going through this, but I'm actually blessed when I'm mourning over these things that are happening to Jesus and that I'm a part of. And I think even as Christians, we can read this and go, yeah, in this world, being a Christian, a lot of the time, there are things that I'm going to be mourning about just because I'm following Jesus. There are going to be ways of life and practices and things that I do that mean that,

my life is not as comfortable or I lose things. But I'm blessed when I'm mourning those things because I have Jesus. Yeah, that's great. That's really good. Yeah, yeah. We've pulled out the sixth Beatitude as well, which is verse eight. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God, which I feel like is a very high promise.

It's very absolutely, I promise. Who among us is pure of heart? Just hands up or not me, sorry. I don't think so. What could Jesus meant when he said see God since the Bible says no one can see God? Yeah, so what did Jesus mean by that and what did he mean by pure in heart? You know, several of these Beatitudes have Old Testament references behind them and

In Psalm 24 verse 3 to 4 it says, who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? So that is the temple in that context. He has clean hands and a pure heart. So this is one of the temple Psalms and the idea is that if you're going up to worship, you need clean hands, a pure heart and so on.

So what? Get right with God, essentially. Get with God. Yeah. Get right with God. Well, no, let me just go back a bit because clean hands and a pure heart. In Hebrew poetry, there was this thing called parallelism. So they'd say the same things in different ways. So clean hands and a pure heart, they sort of balance each other, but they are slightly different, aren't they? In Jesus' time, the rabbis used to emphasize the first, you know, clean hands.

So there were rules and regulations, and the way you showed your love for God was by keeping these rules and regulations. You know, the law was a gift from God, and you got right with God by keeping the law. So Jesus seems to flip that, and he puts the emphasis on the second. He puts the emphasis on the pure heart.

So blessed are the pure in heart. And we see throughout his ministry that there was this constant sort of tension between doing the right thing according to the law codes of the time and how you were with God within yourself, so what your heart was like.

And he was much more on that side. You know, he was an observant Jew. He would keep the rules. He would keep the law. But there was something beyond that. There was something that was much more important than that. Sometimes you could break the law and that was fine because your heart was pure. So. And that's interesting. Yeah. Just looking at those things, because I'm trying to think about modern.

ways of thinking about this, you know, sometimes just what's kind of popped into my head is that idea of like virtue signaling and that's saying the right thing and maybe even like being seen to be doing the right thing. But perhaps there's like a disconnection with, you know, what you really think is going on. Or, you know, how you really feel or think about something inside you, but you've done the right thing. So as far as everyone's concerned, you're irreproachable.

Yeah. But we always, you know, I guess he, while I see what you're saying that he's emphasizing the heart, he's saying, look, if this is right, then what your hands are doing is more likely to be right. Yes. And it kind of goes from the inside out. You do need both, don't you? You do. But sometimes, you know, the Sabbath laws, for instance,

he and his disciples, you know, they're walking through a cornfield, for instance, and the disciples start to pluck the corn and eat the grains. Well, that was reaping and milling as far as the Pharisees were concerned. So that was work on the Sabbath. You know, so technically they were in breach of the law. But Jesus says, oh, for goodness sake. Well, he doesn't say that exactly, you know what I mean. Well, you do sense frustration, don't you? It's like when you're healed.

he heals a man on the Sabbath and people are like, this is wrong. He's like, how can it be wrong to heal someone? And he's misunderstood what this is about. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is a real, I think it's a challenge to the church actually, it's a challenge to Christians because we can get quite legalistic actually in how we expect Christians to behave. I mean, you know, just one example.

I was, this was a few years ago now, but yeah, I always go to church on a Sunday morning. Of course I do. And I think it's right to do that. And I wouldn't sort of skip church for no reason. But if you're not there, I mean, do people sort of, you know, look down on you a little, possibly, I don't know about look down, but they say, hmm, I wonder where Mark is.

And there's this sense that you better have a good reason for not being there. Yeah, you better be sick or... Well, exactly. That's so harsh, isn't it? Yeah. But I remember one morning, I'd gone for a bit of a country walk before church and I was walking along a path and I found a buzzard. OK, this buzzard had obviously flown into a tree and it had sort of stunned itself. And so,

I thought, well, I can't just leave it there. So I managed to get through to a vet on a Sunday morning and they said, yeah, bring it in and we'll look at it. So I wasn't far from the car. So I went and I got a box from the car and I put the buzzard in. I took it off to the vet. And of course I didn't make it to church. So was that the right thing to do or should I have gone to church? So modern Pharisees would probably say, well, look, it's a wild animal. Let nature take its course. You ought to be in church. But

That's not what I did. To be honest, I'm just impressed that you just have in your car, buzzards, boxes ready to take injured animals to the vet. I would be completely stumped. I think I'd have to wrap it in a coat or something. Yeah, well, I was in the Cub Scouts, you know, be prepared. I'm just thinking as well about what Noel mentioned earlier about what does it mean that in this thing it says, these people will see God. Yeah.

You know, this is Jesus who's speaking, isn't it? And there is that, there's like this kind of, there's a practical point to it. There's also just this gospel signpost as well, isn't there? Like, we will never have clean, perfectly clean hands and a pure heart. But, you know, Jesus is saying this to them and he's actually the one, the only one who lived a life with a completely pure heart and clean hands. He didn't sin.

And he's the one who's going to make it possible for those who believe in him to see God in that sense, that kind of big final sense. So, I just, that's something the disciples couldn't have known and understood at the time. But I suppose it's something we can read back to this. And instead of being like, oh goodness, my heart and my hands are not good enough. We've got that confidence.

One more thing on that. I was just thinking, I guess I find it interesting that the state of my heart affects what I can see. I don't know, I guess that's what I'm thinking, like the way that I take care of my heart. So the things that I let affect my heart, right? I think it's a proverb, I should know this, but talking about guarding your heart, right? Oh, yes, yeah.

And I guess, yeah, the things that I let affect my heart a lot of the time can actually be quite distracting, can't they? Like, if I'm like, I don't know, lots of different things that you can let affect your heart. People you can let affect your heart, or scenarios, or maybe injustices that have happened. And a lot of the times I think those are the things that distract me from seeing God or from seeing God rightly, meaning that my focus is not on God because it's...

Like, my gaze has been deviated, I'm looking at other things and being distracted. But if I have a pure heart, if I'm going after one thing, maybe like Matthew 6 .33 in the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus says, seek first his kingdom, if my heart is pure in that way, I think I'm more likely to be focusing on God. I guess that's what I think about it. So, we're going to take a break now. We're going to talk to you a bit about the Romans Course.

All right, we're back and we're going to keep going looking at a few more of these Beatitudes. And we're going to start with the seventh Beatitude, Blessed are the peacemakers. So that's in verse 9. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

I think my first reaction is to say that, you know, this is a dangerous world at the moment and there's a lot of conflict going on in it. And peacemaking is sadly needed. So, you know, if you just look at the news headlines, you can see what's going on. But I know that's not...

That's not all that this beatitude means, is it? Because there are conflicts in people's personal lives, there are conflicts in churches, families, all the rest of it. So it's a really significant one, isn't it? There's a lot going on there. I mean, what even is... So obviously, it's been translated to peacemakers. But...

know, what's the Hebrew word behind it? You mentioned it a bit earlier in the episode, Mark, is shalom. I mean, can we unpack a little bit more what is really indicated by that word? Because does peacemakers on its own do it? Yeah, yeah. Well, the word in Greek is areno, but behind that is this idea of shalom, as you say. It's

Shalom is not just not fighting. Shalom is just a way of saying, well, everything is right. Everything is right between people. There is justice, there is relationship, and so on and so forth. So, it's easy to think that if there is no conflict, there is peace. But,

there's a much more, there's a much deeper idea behind that really. So you can have a state of not fighting, but it's still not peace. I mean, we can all think of, you know, really toxic relationships, for instance, where, you know, everything on the surface is really civil and really polite.

At the same time underneath there is really terrible, terrible behavior which never flares up into an outright row, but which is so dangerous and so damaging to people. And that's not peace. You know, that's not shalom. In terms of nations, you know, if two nations aren't fighting each other, that's not necessarily a shalom state. Right. You think even if...

the wars across the earth were to end today, it wouldn't necessarily mean those two countries were suddenly peaceful with each other. They could have stopped fighting, but the people in each country aren't necessarily reconciled. They don't necessarily have peace. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Just linking it to the second half of this Beatitude, where it says, they shall be called the sons of God. We've talked about Shalom between people, nations, but...

And does it extend beyond that? So is this state of Shalom also about our relationship with God, like our relationship with God's creation, not just with the people, if you see what I mean? Does it have a meaning beyond that? What's the connection with being sons of God? Yeah, I mean, I think behind that expression, sons of God, it's a way of saying that somebody is God -like.

You know, they are behaving in a godly way, that they're reflecting something of the nature and the character of God. So, God is a peacemaker, might be another way of saying it. And we are blessed because we're behaving in a way of which God approves, you know? I think that's the idea behind that.

Yeah, I like this one a lot because what you're saying about being sons of God, it's a doing thing. It's something that I need to do as someone who follows Jesus, which on a very personal level, in my day to day, it could just, peacemaking could just be that I don't quit back at someone who quips at me, or I don't gossip, I don't start drama about something, even though someone's hurt me. It can be something as simple as that.

But that's actually really difficult, it seems, for us as Christians who are trying to follow this way. But in a lot of ways, that is peacemaking on a very smaller level. Well, but incredibly impactful, like you say, in a society where we're so divided, where quite often the way we talk to each other, it is about us and them. So I think definitely as Christians,

you know, thinking about our witness in a sort of real everyday way. Being a peacemaker, what could that look like? What a great thing to reflect on. Yeah. Well, I think this this thing about active peacemaking, what you were saying, Noel I think is really interesting because it can it can be quite costly, can't it? I see occasions where somebody has to be

confronted because, you know, maybe they're not pulling their weight or, you know, maybe they've behaved badly to somebody else or, you know, there might just be an issue that has to be confronted. Now, the easy thing to do is just to walk away and say, oh, well, it'll sort itself out. Let's not worry about it. But that's not really peacemaking, is it? No, no. So it's not an absence of conflict necessary. Yeah.

I don't know what you think about that. I mean, is that a fair reading of this? I guess we can say that Jesus was perfectly peaceful, right? But he confronted people and he had conflicts with people. And the people that he most often had these with were his own, you would say his own people, right? The religious leaders of his time, but he wasn't afraid to do that. So,

But he must have also been a presence that was perfectly peaceful. So I think so. I think that makes sense. Yeah. Well, I suppose intervening to bring about true peace. That's the point, isn't it? You know, it's not just like, oh, OK, they're not currently fighting. We don't need to worry about it. But if all the same attitudes that kind of led to the othering of people, to the explosion, whatever it was, if they remain, then the whole job of peacemaking hasn't been completed, has it?

Yeah, yeah, just thinking about what you said, Mark, about it costing you something. Maybe we should move on to the next one we want to look at, which is the eighth Beatitude. And the last one we'll look at is verse 10. It's actually really verse 10 through 12. Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you.

and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad for your reward in heaven is great. For in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Yeah, so I guess it's this idea which Mark just said of it costing something, which I really like because I think Jesus saying this to them is kind of in a way him saying, if you do these things, if you are meek, if you give mercy, if you...

follow this way of life that is against the world's way, you're going to be persecuted for it. People aren't going to accept this way of life. So again, I think it's almost this preparation, like the same thing with the morning. You'll be blessed for it when you're persecuted for doing these things. That's kind of how I've read it. Yeah, because I mean, there are definitely qualifiers in those sort of three statements that you read there. It's not saying persecution, just flat out.

blessing, it says, for righteousness' sake. And the insults that are mentioned in verse 11, for example, when it says, all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. So there is this sort of thing. I think it's an encouragement, isn't it, to persevere in your faith as well. Yeah. But it's also like, I don't get points for getting persecuted because I was a Christian who thought I was better than

people who aren't Christians or because I was persecuted for my own sake for something that I did that made me feel good about something. It has to be for righteousness and for Christ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that word persecution is a really strong one as well, isn't it? And I'm never really convinced that we are, in the UK, in this country, I'm never really convinced that Christians are persecuted for their faith.

But I do think that sometimes individual Christians can face a lot of social pressure, actually. You know, if you're working with people, for instance, who don't share your faith, it can be really hard to stand out and just to do the right thing in a very sort of low -key way, just to be different. And, you know, certainly if you come right out with it and say, well, I am a Christian, I am a believer.

A lot of people are going to be fine with that, but there will be people who will react to it. And especially if you're young, I think, as well, if you're like a teenager, young adult, there's a kind of pressure to fit in. Massive pressure. Yeah, massive pressure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't think we should underplay that, really. Yeah. I guess that's why I like this too, because I think there's a part of it in what Jesus is saying of kind of, do it anyway.

Yeah, you're going to be persecuted for it, but you're going to be blessed, so do it. And I think that's a lot when it comes to doing things for Jesus or living for His way. It's like, yeah, I can see that this might not work out for me well, but Jesus says that I'm blessed. Jesus says that I have Him, so I'm going to do it anyway. I like that. It's compelling. Just listening to you say that, I know in myself that I'm very sort of pain avoidant.

you know, if I can avoid discomfort and things like that, I will. And so that is a big temptation to me when, you know, I could stand up and say something, I could speak out, but I know that it's not going to be well received. It gives me pause and I have to have, you know, I have to ask God for kind of like courage if I really think I should speak up, you know. Yeah.

And I think, you know, I often, I'm not, I just think it's interesting, maybe a verse or verses like this are a challenge to us. Like quite often when we pray for the persecuted church, you know, in a church service, we might even start off our prayer by like thanking God for, you know, that we're not suffering like that, that, you know, we have all these freedom, the freedom to worship and things like that. But there's a,

I mean, obviously I'm not wishing persecution and suffering on us, but does it make us complacent, you know, in a way? Like persecution is something that's happening over there. It's not happening here. But what are we missing out on in a way as well by being so kind of, you know, have we forgotten that we're called to be in the world, but not of it? And how does it change our perspective to kind of see persecution

know, for righteousness sake, on Jesus' behalf, whatever, His honor, like seeing that as a blessing. I think that's absolutely true. But I think that what you were saying about the persecuted church, I think we've absolutely got to remember that. And I think, you know, I think that's the primary meaning of this beatitude, to be honest, because there are so many parts of the world where

know, to be a Christian is really dangerous, you know, physically dangerous. And not just physically dangerous either, but, you know, even if people aren't martyred or sent to prison, they face disadvantages in all sorts of ways, you know, and life is just much, much harder for some people because they are Christians. And the witness that comes out of it, like if you look at, for example, really great open doors,

material, because they're sort of all about, you know, praying for the persecuted church. And you just hear these incredible stories of people's, you know, the witness of their faith, even when it's like we were talking right at the start about being it's, you know, it could cost them their lives. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But they do it anyway. So yeah.

And you know, Bible Society supports churches in China and in North Africa, for instance, and other places where being a Christian is really, really hard. And yeah, I think we should always bear them in mind, to be honest. Absolutely. So I guess, you know, as we maybe bring this episode to a close, I think it could be good to kind of finish this off by thinking about how...

this impacts us today? What's the big takeaway for you, maybe just from this discussion? I feel like I need to sit down and really reflect. What opportunities do I have to be a peacemaker? In what ways am I blessed right now? What should I embrace instead of shying away from it? Lots of questions, but I guess.

often do we just sort of hear this and go, isn't that interesting? And then move on. So my takeaway is perhaps I need to really dig into this and reflect more. How can I show what the kingdom of heaven is like right now by following these beautiful attitudes? Yeah, I've just been struck again, actually, by reading the Beatitudes and thinking how much there is in them. And I think I just need to read them again and dwell on them. And

just see what I can learn from them. Yeah, same. This is a lot of stuff that we need to be doing as Christians, actions that we need to be taking to follow Jesus. That's compelling to me. So, yeah. Lovely. Well, we're going to bring this episode to a close. I wonder if, as you've been listening, there have been questions that you've wanted to ask. Well, please do send in your questions. You can send them to biblesociety .org .uk.

and hopefully we're going to be having a Q &A episode where we might be able to dig into some of those questions. So please send them in. Thank you so much for listening and please join us for the next episode.

You've been listening to the Rooted Podcast from Bible Society. We're a Christian organization that translates, publishes, and distributes the Bible around the world. Visit our website, biblesociety .org .uk, to find out how you can get involved in Bible outreach and make a difference in the lives of thousands of people around the world.