The Rooted Podcast

Speaker 1 (00:00.056)
Pilots question what is truth. think lots of people will be asking that today.

John actually uses this word life 36 times in his gospel.

Instead of basing things on empirical truths, there's a desire, at least in some areas, when it suits us, to kind of talk about truth as being something to do with our experience.

things that we want on earth are not necessarily bad. We see them from such a worldly perspective as opposed to kind of flipping it to think in a heavenly perspective.

There's this idea throughout John's gospel that believing leads to life.

Speaker 1 (00:33.134)
You know, one of the most insidious lies of the world is that there is no truth.

You're listening to The Rooted Podcast from Bible Society. In each series, we take a closer look at a theme or book of the Bible and explore its relevance in our lives today. This is our series on Jesus's I Am statements. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to The Rooted Podcast. I'm Noelle and I'm here today with Esther and a very special Jack. We love Jack so much. He's our producer. So a lot of the times he's here, but he's behind the scenes. But today, I have invited him on.

to talk with us about another one of Jesus' I Am statements. And we're going to look at John chapter 14, where Jesus says, am the way, the truth, and the life. So we're going to look a bit at the context and then actually go through each of these words, way, truth, and life, talk a bit about why John has included these and what Jesus means when he says these, and talk about what that means for us today. So, Jack, do you want to read the passage for us to start?

Yeah, sure. So, I'll read John 14 verses one to seven.

Lord, we do not know where you're going. How can we know the way? Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on, you do know him and you have seen him.

Speaker 2 (02:22.454)
Let's start by talking a bit about the context that this is set in.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely sort of flows directly from an exchange that Jesus has been having with His disciples in the previous chapter. At the beginning of chapter 13, we get sort of some insight. So it's not Jesus actually saying it out loud, but John is telling us that Jesus knows that it's His time to depart out of this world to the Father. He then goes on to wash their feet and to

tell them basically, to try and tell them, I'm going away, but I'm going to come back. So they're finding this really confusing. And I don't think that's surprising. We know what happens later, but at that time they're like, what do you mean? You know, he says to them, little children, yet a little while I'm with you, you will seek me. And just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, where I am going, you cannot come. So there's this mysterious thing of like, okay, he's going somewhere, we can't come.

they ask him about it and then he says, but you will come a little while later. So I think it's setting up, he's encouraging them to ask questions in a way. And I just love the way that this chapter starts, you know, as Jack read the very first verse, it says, let not your hearts be troubled, believe in God, believe also in me. And I think when it says believe there, it's a call for them to trust in him. You know,

And actually, I was reading in the ESV study Bible notes that believe, where it says believe in God, you could either read that as a command, believe in God, believe also in me, or you could read it as a statement that it's saying, look, you do believe in God, now believe in me in the same way. Trust in what I'm telling you, it's going to be all right, I'm not abandoning you.

Speaker 3 (04:18.094)
It's so interesting, isn't it? Because I think as soon as something kind of mysterious happens and you don't know what's around the corner, you kind of have a bit of a wobble or something. But Jesus is immediately saying, let not your hearts be troubled. And that just reminded me again of James 4, 8, where it's, draw near to God and he will draw near to you. And I think it's so simple. It's such a simple verse, which kind of, it's almost annoying how simple it is. And I think

We often are so easily overcomplicate things and when we're not sure what's happening, we start to worry so much. But actually it's that, think Jesus is almost getting at that again, of kind of don't worry, just like draw near. You know who I am. I'm not leaving you.

draw near that really like links into this idea, this image or metaphor that he introduces here of talking about his father's house. Because I think this is another metaphor, bit like the I am statements themselves tend to be metaphorical. But you've got this image here of like, okay, my father's house, is it heaven? What does that mean? I think for me, when I hear the word heaven, I get sort of, you know, abstract images of what does that mean?

But he's making it concrete here in this idea of it's a house. It has many rooms. It's the place where you dwell with God. And that's where everybody, I guess, ultimately wants to be. And he's saying, I'm going there and I'm making a way for you. So yeah, draw near to me. I'll draw near to you. That closeness is really in this passage, isn't it? But sorry, I interrupted you, Jack. What were you going to say?

So good. I was just going to say again, I think I really value Thomas in all these gospels, all the gospel accounts, because I think often when we read the gospels, we just see all these amazing things happening and it's sometimes hard to kind of bring it into modern day. And we don't often see all these things happening in our life. But Thomas, I always see myself in him in that he's the one asking the questions and doubting and being like, well, what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (06:17.736)
here he's like, well, we don't know where you're going because you haven't told us. And I think that's, I just find it really helpful to see that even someone who's been following Jesus so closely throughout his ministry, seeing all these amazing things happening and he's still asking these questions. And I think it's really valuable to us today as followers of Jesus that it kind of enables us to ask these questions as well. And that it's fine to doubt these things and it's okay to ask these questions and kind of flesh them out. I guess that's kind of what we're doing, isn't it?

even just having these conversations is what does this all mean? How do we actually understand this? I just think Thomas is a great example to us in some ways to actually to ask the questions and not just accept what we hear.

Yeah, you're right. It's sort of like all the disciples throughout the Gospels are lost for most of it, even though they're the people who are closest to Jesus, you would think. And then I also love the fact that Jesus still accepts them, even though oftentimes they don't believe in Him and oftentimes they're confused and they don't know what's going on, but He still accepts them. And they're still His people and they're still His disciples. And I love that as well.

Well, I mean, that's exactly what he's saying to them. Could there be a more encouraging answer really? Because when Thomas does ask that question, saying, you how can we know the way, he says, I'm the way. You know, I'm the truth, I'm the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. So that's sort of reiterating, well, where's the destination? I am the way to something and it's the Father. But for him to sort of say, look, I know you're

asking me these questions now and you don't feel certain, he is acknowledging their feelings, but he's saying from now on you do know him and you have seen him. You've seen the father. So even in this place where you're like, I don't have all the answers, he's saying, but I'm telling you, you do know me, I know you. There's that relationship and yeah, reassurance that they're on the right track.

Speaker 2 (08:13.998)
Yeah. Yeah. I also think it's interesting how Jesus doesn't really answer his question either, because they're trying to get at where is Jesus going. Like, even if you look right before this in chapter 13, Simon asks Him, Lord, where are You going? And Peter says again, why can't I follow You right now? Like, they're trying to get Him to tell them where He's going, and He just won't tell them. Like, He won't tell them in simple, plain language, which is something that

I think we see in lots of Gospels, Jesus is often speaking in sort of cryptic language. So, I can imagine it was equally frustrating as much as it was reassuring, like, okay, you are the way, I can trust in that. But He's still not really telling them exactly what they want to know. So, why don't we unpack a bit each of these words? So, we thought...

This would be an interesting thing to do because John, throughout his gospel, he has certain words that he likes to use again and again. So let's start with the way. Jesus says that He is the way. So guess the question that the disciples are asking that they want to know is, what is He the way to? So I think it's quite clear if you're reading it, but maybe to them at the time it wasn't as clear. I think he's talking about being the way to the Father. I mean, that's not the most clear thing ever, is it? You have to really think about what He means by the Father. What is He saying when He says,

that He is the way to the Father. And I guess we could also talk a bit about that term, the Father. It wouldn't have been entirely new for them to hear about God as being a Father. So, for example, in Deuteronomy, it says, the wilderness you saw how the Lord your God carried you, just as a man carries his son. That's Deuteronomy 1.31. I also found in Isaiah, in Isaiah 64.8, it says, but now, O Lord, you are our Father. We are the clay and you are our potter.

And there's another example in Isaiah 63. So I think this idea of God being a father to them, I don't think it would have been the newest thing, but I think that Jesus is placing an emphasis on it for a reason.

Speaker 1 (10:11.906)
thinking about just the richness of him saying, I'm the way, I think it is about relationship because you've also got this repeated idea of knowing the Father, knowing Jesus and him saying, I'm the way. it's not, I guess, yes, you could think of it as like destination, that, you know, my father's house, and then you might think, well, what's the physical route to that? But he's kind of saying relationship with me.

following my example is the way because I'm going ahead of you to prepare this place and then I'm going to come back and I'm leading you to this destination that you want to get to. So I feel that it's trying to get across this idea of intimate relationship, of being completely in God's presence and not just that but shalom in the sense of complete harmony with God. And it's interesting, isn't it, that sometimes we call Christians

followers of the way. And I love that because I think there is a richness to it in terms of not just know Jesus, follow Jesus, but it's like a whole way of life. It's like everything in that relationship is shaped by it. And we know also in this passage where Jesus sort of says stuff about, know, if you love me, you'll obey my commandments, you'll do the things, you know, He talks about He's doing the works that His Father wants Him to do.

And he's calling us to sort of continue that on in our Christian lives. So it's not just knowing him, but it's imitating him.

Yeah, I get that relationship thing. I guess as well, this verse always just kind of pulls me back to Matthew 7 as well, where he's talking about the narrow and wide gate, the way to destruction and eternal life, that kind of thing. And again, I think it's the same word in Greek as well. think, yeah, there's a way that Jesus wants us to go and there's a way that kind of the world pulls us in and...

Speaker 3 (12:09.302)
I think obviously it's so easy to be be pulled by the world and its influences, but if Jesus is literally the only way to the Father and to everlasting life, and as you say, it's not just the destination is it, it's the whole journey, then it's got to be the best way. Going along that narrow journey, the narrow path, even though it's the harder way, there's got to be something in it that's worthwhile, I think.

Yeah, I think it's significant too because, so, I think as a Christian, when I'm living my life, there are lots of things that Jesus does in the Gospels or says in the Gospels that I'm trying to follow. something like the Sermon on the Mount, for example, loving my enemies and praying and fasting and that sort of thing. But I think a lot of people

around the world for centuries have read those teachings and have thought, yeah, this is compelling and it's brilliant and it's really good and we should do these things. We should love people and they're accepted. So I think it's significant for Jesus to say, I am the way, because it means that everything that came with Him, including His teachings, aren't enough. Like it can't just be that we listen, we obey the Sermon on the Mount and we

You know, we see His miracles, people who saw His miracles at the time and said, that's amazing, or people who heard the parables. But like, all of that isn't the way. But you still have to have Jesus Himself as being the way. So I think that's significant as well.

I think that's so interesting in the times that we're in right now, where I think, well, we released a report which we mentioned last week called The Quiet Revival that shows that there's like 2 million more people attending church than there were four or five years ago, which is incredible. I think Christianity seems to be a bit more openly accepted in society right now, you know, where

Speaker 1 (14:00.558)
Maybe when I was growing up, if you were a Christian, people would completely slate you and you felt like very much an oddball in the world. Now people are like, yeah, sure. You know, and they might say Jesus was amazing. He did good things and yeah, society would be better if we did some of the things that Jesus told us to do. But there's still, I think, for a lot of people, a bit of a hurdle in, you know, like they're willing to be like, yeah, okay, I'll love my neighbor. I'll do some good things. But do they love Jesus?

in the way that Jesus is sort of inviting us to in this passage, a complete identification with Him and His Father.

I wonder if there's any significance as well in the fact that this comes directly after he's just washed his disciples' feet and he's just said, new commandment I give to you that you love one another. It's like Jesus' way of life was incredibly sacrificial. I guess that's, in a sense, one of the ways he's calling us to live in the same way as he did in a sacrificial way that is so counter-cultural to both the

world that they lived in back then, but also in ours right now where everyone is just trying to get one up on each other. But Jesus' way was very sacrificial and He says, am the way. Yes, to the Father, to eternal life. But in that, think that also carries in kind of replicating what He did as well.

Yeah. Yeah, he set the example. Let's go now to the truth. I think John is trying to get something across specifically about truth. It's all throughout, like we just said, so John 1, John 4, John 8, John 18, you can find it everywhere. But the one that I thought about was Jesus' conversation with Pilate. It's in John 18. Pilate says, you are a king then.

Speaker 2 (15:54.124)
Jesus answered, say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of the truth listens to me. What is truth? retorted Pilate. That's what I thought about that line that Pilate says, what is truth? Which is brilliant and so interesting. But I think, when I read this, I think Jesus is talking about truth as being Jesus came to testify.

of the Father. I think he's talking about the Father again when he's talking about truth. Everyone who is on the side of truth, everyone who is with the Father, listens to Jesus' voice. So I think again, Jesus is always pointing to the Father. And then Pilate can't understand that, I don't think. And so he's just thinking about truth in sort of a, maybe a more abstract way. So yeah, this was a passage I thought about when I was trying to think about what does Jesus mean when he says he is the truth. And I wonder again if he's pointing back to the Father.

Well, I think he is. Not only that, I think it's also, you know, the messianic claims of Jesus, you know, that he's the fulfillment of all of the Old Testament law and prophecies. And I suppose that word fulfillment, you could also say he's the revelation of it in human form. He comes and he perfectly keeps the law. He matches with all those prophecies, he fulfills them. And you also get sort of

in Colossians and Hebrews, get that thing of it saying like, he's the exact likeness of God. So it's not only a revelation of all of the Old Testament, but it's a revelation of God himself to us, the clearest one that humans can appreciate because he's like us. He's fully God and fully man. And yeah, I think that is what it's getting at as the truth. I'm the true representation.

If you look at me, everything you'll see is the truth from God, the direct source.

Speaker 3 (17:55.662)
And then obviously Pilate goes on to say, I found no guilt in him. He's like, I can't find a flaw in your argument here. You must be the truth. yeah, as to what you're saying about kind of the fulfillment of the law and prophets, back in John 1, where we see Jesus coming to earth, we've got this amazing like first 18 verses, but verse 17, for the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. And again, it's just that it's kind of littered throughout all of John's gospel.

this idea of Jesus revealing the truth. Yeah, it's such a dense word, I think. I think it's not one that we really understand in English as they probably would have understood then. There's loads of different words to describe it. When Pilate's saying, what is truth? It just makes me think there must be so many layers to what Jesus is actually talking about. It can't just be honesty. There's got to be some more depth to it of, I don't know if it's a morality thing of Jesus.

being like the ultimate moral person never sinning, kind of thing. There seems to be so many layers to it.

But it's also, if you're saying sort of morality, but it's also about reality, isn't it? If we're thinking about empirical truth, something that is, you know, just completely true, it's not subjective. think that's, you know, Pilate's question, what is truth? I think lots of people will be asking that today. We have this whole thing about, you know, post-modernism or post-truth society and everything's relative. Instead of basing things on empirical truths.

there's a desire, at least in some areas, when it suits us, to kind of talk about truth as being something to do with our experience, our perspective, our desire, rather than, you know, something outside of ourselves that is true whether we believe in it or not. And I think, you know, what Jesus is saying is, am the truth whether you believe in me or not. But you should believe in me. And if, you know, if you don't believe in me, at least look at the works that I'm doing, because they're evidence as well.

Speaker 1 (19:56.056)
So yeah, this idea of the truth in our society, think it's, you know, one of the most insidious lies of the world is that there is no truth, not really. And it can be whatever we want it to be. It leads to so much harm, deception, people not seeing things clearly. And it's sad, you know? It's cheating people out of a beautiful truth that leads to the fullness of life.

I think you're right, Esther, and I think that is really interesting. I think it's really great that we as Christians have a truth that we can trust and that we know. That we know what the truth is. I think that changes everything. And there's a lot of safety in it and assurance, which I think is really invaluable. I think we are seeing that a lot in our society. I it's interesting to think about how we respond as Christians in a way that's still loving, but then also remembering that love a lot of the time challenges things.

Obviously it won't sound very loving if when people say, well, my truth is X, something that just, you know, much as they might want it to be true, it's not true. If we just jump in and say, you're wrong, that, that is, they're not going to receive that as love. But I do think that we can ask questions to help people explore and get at the truth. You know, we can say, what do you mean by truth? why do you find that?

so compelling. Why do you want that to be true, essentially? We can ask them, you know, how does that compare with this thing that seems to clash with that being true? And I think that that is loving, is to help people walk through when I'm making this claim, what am I actually saying? Is it true? If it's not, why do I want it to be true? I think, and that takes patience to walk through that and they might not want to engage in the conversation. But I think asking questions.

To get to the heart of the matter is probably the most loving way to do it. Do we talk about the life? Yes.

Speaker 2 (21:57.23)
That's good.

Let's talk about the life. Last word. Jesus is the life. I was looking, and John actually uses this word life 36 times in his gospel. And you can see it all over. I was even thinking about what I think, one of my favorite verses in John is John 20-31. But these things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

So think there's this idea throughout John's gospel that believing leads to life. And John is constantly trying to point us towards believing so that we can have life. So this isn't the first time Jesus says that He is life. And He says, I am the resurrection and the life. He says, I am the bread of life. He is constantly connecting Himself with life. So what is the significance here? What do we think Jesus is getting at?

The whole thing about believing and finding life I think is really interesting. There's a clear opposition, isn't there, to the way that people were living in that he's basically saying there's so much more here. If you believe me, if you follow me, there's more life. Yes, you're physically alive, but it's not going to lead to life and life in all its fullness and eternal life. I know he's talking to his disciples here, but I just think about the Pharisees in this and how they were trying to put these

follow these certain rules and laws really strictly, but actually that doesn't necessarily lead to eternal life. And Jesus is saying, if you follow me and you believe in me, there is life, I am the life. And think there's a really strong, call there to follow and to believe and see what comes from that, not just us doing loads of stuff and trying to find life in our own actions.

Speaker 2 (23:39.608)
That's a good point because there so many different ways that we are told that we can find life. So it's significant that Jesus says that He is the life because of that. Because there seems to be lots of options in which we could find life. And by that I mean like, life's the full on earth, like enjoyment of life and not even eternal life. Although I think that Jesus and John are talking about that.

Yeah, I think he's talking about being spiritually alive. And if you're spiritually alive, that is eternal. I guess if you're thinking about wider scripture, I think that there's a lot in Paul's letters about kind of how, know, righteousness through Christ, we're justified by our faith in him, our belief in him, and that's how we can be spiritually alive.

how we have access to eternal life. So, I think it's, you know, mashing up lots of imagery from the New Testament as a whole. But, in this passage where we've got so much about, you know, knowing the Father, knowing Jesus, the Father loving us and us loving Him, and this idea of, you know, Jesus being the way to this dwelling place, this eternal dwelling place with God. Yeah, I think it is about eternal life.

There's also that paradox of he's kind of on his way to his death. And I think kind of as we saying earlier about how his way is not what we expect, it's a sacrificial way, but actually his death brings us life. It's one of those pictures that never quite really makes sense. think I was one of my pastors at church recently was talking about how I guess this is kind of the opposite way, but Adam and Eve in the garden, obviously it was the tree of life and the tree of

knowledge of good and evil. They eat from the wrong one and they think they're going to get more life and they kind get their freedom, but that also brings death, not life. They're separated. I think there's that paradox as well of what actually brings us life. Is it the things we want or is it Jesus? I think he's clearly saying here, I am the life, despite he's about to die. It's always that constant push and pull narrative of just everything he says is so sometimes so

Speaker 3 (25:58.744)
hard to understand, which again is why I love what Thomas is kind of just questioning and being like, what do mean? What do mean? but yeah, just here's the life is such a strong statement.

I think, you know, if you were to ask anybody that you know, know, Christians and non-Christians, it's an interesting question to ask, what is the good life? In your opinion, what is the fullest, best good life that you could have? What do you want that to look like? Because I think most people would be able to come up with some answers, whether they're flippant or deep, you know, and it'd be interesting to hear what they say. A lot of times we think about life now and we might

talk about things like wealth, health, freedom, whatever. But I guess, you know, the challenge when we're sharing the gospel is to share that what God is offering us in Jesus, this eternal life, is better than all of that. And it is like, you know, I do identify with the disciples here because I can't picture what eternal life is. But I do think that in the Gospel of John,

He's trying to give us a comforting picture. In case the idea of infinity scares you, or what does it mean to dwell with God? Is this some weird kind of cosmic wormhole that I just can't really picture? But he pictures it as a house with a father who loves us, where there's room for everyone who believes. And I think we have to hold onto that as a comforting image.

That's so good as well. Because I think what you're saying about asking people what they'd call the good life, they'd probably say, I'd love a house, I'd love a family. And for everyone to just kind of get along and like, you see that exactly and what you just said, but it's it's God's house. It's God the Father being that loving one. Yeah. And it is so hard, isn't it? Because the things that we want on earth are not necessarily bad. You see them from such a worldly perspective, as opposed to kind of flipping it to think

Speaker 3 (28:03.062)
in a heavenly perspective of God's house, being part of God's family.

Yeah. And perfect peace as well.

So guess Jesus is saying that His life, the life that He offers and Him being the life is the ultimate life really, but it might look different to what we think at the same time.

interesting bridge in this passage between that idea of the life that we have now, and we're spiritually alive as believers in Jesus, but we haven't arrived yet. You know, He hasn't come back and taken us to His Father's house, as we believe He will at the Second Coming. But we get here in John 14, He promises them, you know, I'm going to the Father and I will ask the Father to send a helper, the Holy Spirit basically, to be

to dwell in you right now. I think it's important to sort of see that that is completely connected in this same passage. It's part of this same discussion. I'm going away, but I'm not abandoning you. I'm going to the Father, I'm preparing away, and I'm also sending you a helper right now who will lead you and remind you of all the truths that I've shared and will empower you as believers. Pack the entire world with my ministry to follow my way.

Speaker 1 (29:19.064)
that the entire world could become followers of my way. And I love the fact that he basically says that this is all about so that the Father will be glorified in His Son. It's all about God's glory at the end of the day. So it's not just a great life for us, and wouldn't that be nice, but it glorifies God. And is there any higher aim?

Yeah, it's good. Let's just end by saying a bit about what this means to us. He's just being the way, the truth and the life. That's sort of how we've been wrapping up these episodes.

Yeah, I think for me, it's just that kind of constant reminder of where do I look for life? And I think so often it's in kind of my achievements and feeling proud of what I've done and think, yeah, that's made my life better that I've done that kind of thing. But yeah, realizing that true life, life in all its fullness is only found through Jesus, it's a really good reminder to see that again and to think through that and try and

put into action actually that isn't, no, it's not just what I do, it's who I believe in, the way that I choose to follow.

Yeah, I think I would say the most encouraging thing that's leapt out at me today from this passage, I mean, so much of it is encouraging, but just when he tells Thomas and the other disciples, if you'd known me, you would have known my father also. From now on, you do know him and have seen him. I think that's so encouraging when I am feeling lost and confused and

Speaker 1 (30:45.108)
know, maybe pouring out some of those laments when I look at the world around and I'm confused by the different narratives and going like, how long, Lord, you know, why are these things happening? you know, when are you going to intervene? When will these promises that you've made come true? And then wondering, have I got it wrong? Do I really know the father? Am I really on the right track? This is so encouraging to be like, you do know him. You have seen him in me.

and you're safe in me. Even if you can't see it right now, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. Stick in there, stand firm, trust. Yeah. I think that's an amazing encouragement and truth to hold onto when you're feeling lost.

Yeah, it's good. Yeah, I think for me, just the idea that you have to have Jesus himself. And that as much as I'm compelled by his teachings and by all the things he did while he on the earth, by the things he's still doing today, that without knowing him, everything else isn't enough. And knowing him is the best part. So, that's good. But yeah, it's a good reminder of that for me. Thank you, Jack. And thank you, Esther, for a great conversation about this IM statement. We have a couple more episodes left in this series. We have one more IM statement.

And then we're going to have a bonus episode all about the woman caught in adultery and that story in John 8. So really looking forward to those episodes. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the podcast, you can leave us a rating or a view. You can send in any questions you have to biblesociety.org.uk forward slash rooted questions. We'd love to hear those and answer as many as we can. And that's it. We'll see you next week.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Rooted Podcast. To find out more about Bible Society's mission to invite people to discover the Bible for themselves in England, Wales and around the world, visit biblesociety.org.uk.