The Rooted Podcast

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You're listening to The Rooted Podcast from Bible Society, a Christian organization that invites people to discover the life -giving power of the Bible. In each series, we dig deeper into a theme or book of the Bible and explore its message for us today. This is series two, Philippians. Welcome back to the sixth episode in the Philippians series of The Rooted Podcast. I'm here again with Mark and Esther.

We've been separated in the last couple of episodes, but we're back again. The three of us really happy to be here. Today we're going to be talking about the second half of Philippians chapter four. So from verses 10 onwards to the end, talking a bit about Paul's contentment, this gift that the Philippians have given to him and his comments on that. And then talking a bit about some of these really well -known verses we find in this chapter and what we think about how we should use those, how we can use those in our day -to -day lives.

Why don't we just get right into it? Esther, do you want to begin reading the passage and then Mark, you can finish it off? Sure.

the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well -fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all this through Him who gives me strength. Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only.

even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid again and again when I was in need. Not that I am looking for a gift, but I am looking for what may be credited to your account. I have received full payment and even more. I am amply supplied now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God.

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and my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus. To our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen. Greet all the saints in Christ Jesus, the brothers who are with me send greetings. All the saints send you greetings, especially those who belong to Caesar's household. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. So I think

One of the things that is commonly talked about in this passage is Paul's contentment. So he talks about the fact that he's received this gift, but the way that he receives it, or almost the language or the tone that it sounds like he has in this passage is very much one of, thank you so much for this gift, but I'm actually fine either way, which is really interesting considering he's in prison. So I guess it just got me thinking a bit when I was reading this about contentment. And in our Christian lives,

But today, for those of us who feel that we have much, is this contentment that Paul has something that we feel that we have in Christ? Or is it actually something that escapes most of us? And what does contentment kind of look like today for us? I think this is really interesting, and I'm going to do my thing and just add a bit of historical context to this, actually. Because one of the big philosophies at the time in the Greco -Roman world was the idea of Stoicism.

And that's quite a thing today. There are, I suppose, neo -Stoics who read Marcus Aurelius and there's a Stoic podcast and things like that. And it tends to attract young men who see in this philosophy something that really appeals to them. And it's all about self -sufficiency. It's about not having to rely on other people. It's being sufficient to yourself. There was one philosopher, Epictetus, who

wrote about this, he was a stoic philosopher. So, Epictetus says, begin with a cup or a household utensil. If it breaks, say, I don't care. Go on to a horse or a pet dog. If anything happens to it, say, I don't care. If you go on long enough and if you try hard enough, then you'll come to a stage where you can watch your nearest and dearest die and say, I don't care. So, the idea was to detach yourself.

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from human emotions, from human needs, really. And that was how you became an effective person, really. There's a lot that's terrible about it, but it's all about self -discipline and training yourself not to care, not to be affected by what people do to you. There's a lot that's terrible about it. There's something quite admirable about it as well, actually. So when Paul talks about being content, whatever the circumstances,

there's kind of an echo of Stoicism there, which would have resonated with people in the church who were affected by that philosophy. But he puts this twist on it because he says, I can do everything not because of my own internal mental training and fortitude and everything. He says, I can do everything through him who gives me strength. In other words, my support comes not from the inside,

It comes from the outside. It comes from God. I think too, something else that I find interesting about it is that he says, I've learned how to live in prosperity, which is really interesting because he's not just talking about living with not enough. He's saying there's also a secret to living with enough, with living with more than enough, living in prosperity, which is interesting because I wouldn't think that we would think about that. When I read this, I more think along the lines of how could I live more simply or how could I live with less?

which I think is really a convicting question for a lot of us today who have way more than we need and don't often ask ourselves, would I actually be content with less? And I was thinking about this and thinking about the passage in Luke 12 where Jesus is talking to the rich ruler, I believe it is, and he says to him, life does not consist in an abundance of possessions. And it's just the truth about life. He's saying you won't find life in those things.

And so I think in this passage, it causes me to ask myself, would I be able to say the same as Paul here? Or do I have this mindset that contentment will come when I just have a little bit more? Or am I actually content now? I mean, there's so much context here though, that I don't want to ignore in thinking about these questions because this is all one letter and he's tying up the loose ends here, isn't he? He's coming to the end.

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and he's reiterating important points that he wants them to remember. And it's remaking that point that we don't need to be anxious about anything because of Christ Jesus. Whatever circumstances we're in, God is always with us. He hasn't abandoned us and that our strength is in Him. Whether we're in the green pastures, if you think of Psalm 23, or in the darkest valley, He's saying, look, thank you for this gift, but I'm not content because of your gift.

that you've given me. My contentment isn't relying on that. I'm grateful for it and it's made me praise God and you've glorified God by doing it. But my contentment is in God, this unshakable source of strength and power. Just to link back to what you were saying about, would I be content living with less? I don't know that this is really a passage that's sort of saying, you know, perhaps we need to

think about, you know, we've got this excess in our lives and how could we have less and be content with less? And I don't know that it's necessarily making that point. It feels very much like Paul kind of lets the circumstances happen as they may. But whatever happens, he's fine in Christ. But there is a really good point there, Noel, and I agree with you, actually. I think, you know, we are such a prosperous society, aren't we?

in this country overall. I mean, obviously there are lots of people who really don't have enough. The idea that we have to think about how to live in prosperity, I think, is a really interesting one. I think prosperity puts responsibilities on us, basically. How do we use what we have? How do we use our money wisely? If we're prosperous in terms of time, how do we use our time wisely or gifts or whatever?

And his contentedness in that sense means that he can pray, he can submit his life to God and say, right, I'm prosperous at this moment in time, but I'm living in a way which is pleasing to you. And that, it seems to me, is what contentment means in that sense. It's not just a sense of being at ease, it's a sense of being at ease before God. Yeah. It's good.

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what Paul has been through. There's that famous passage in 2 Corinthians 4. It puts it in a slightly different sense there. I'm still wondering exactly what he does mean by contentment. I like that idea of being at ease before God. But in that passage, there's lots of similarities, but he describes it more as like we don't lose heart no matter the circumstances. So in verse one, it says,

Since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. We're hard pressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed, but not in despair, persecuted, but not abandoned, struck down, but not destroyed. And there's this sense that those are some pretty poor circumstances, aren't they, where he would have been in need in many of those situations. So this contentment that he's talking about here is like, well, we didn't lose hope.

because we always trust in God that we would kind of achieve what we were going to achieve. He says like, though outwardly we're wasting away, yet inwardly we're being renewed day by day. And then he describes these troubles as being light and momentary and that they're actually achieving an eternal glory that far outweighs all of the troubles. So I think, you know, I would connect these two passages. There's a sense of contentment, a sense of being content before God.

of not losing hope despite whatever circumstances you find yourself in. Just like if you go back to Philippians 2 and he's talked about the fact that, yes, I've been in prison, but actually what's happened to me has advanced the gospel. Yeah, I guess it's the idea that if I have unfulfilled desires, they're not curbing my joy. I'm content in what I have, no matter if it's little or if it's much, because I'm content in Christ.

So my material possessions or my ambitions, the things that I have or I don't have, don't have the control over me to determine my joy and my happiness in life because it's already been predetermined in Christ. But there's such a focus as well though, it feels, in Paul's life. You know, he's in prison for the gospel and when he's out of prison, he's going here, there and everywhere preaching the gospel. Is every moment of my life about preaching the gospel?

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in the same way that I think you could say for Paul. I don't think I can claim that. And I think I spend way more time thinking about, you know, what I'm earning and what I'm going to do with that and where I want to be in the next few years or what I might need or want. But that doesn't seem to be such a big focus for him. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. And I guess all of us feel sometimes that we should be, you know, doing much better as Christians.

But I think we must sort of dehumanize Paul and imagine him as this just evangelist machine. I mean, he was a person. And in a sense, I mean, we only see one side of him. We probably see the best side of him in the letters that he wrote. But actually, he was with people. He wasn't talking about Christian things all the time. And I'm sure he wasn't evangelizing all the time. He was kind of living his life, but with this particular focus.

know, I think it'd be quite wearing to be with somebody who talked about the gospel all the time, to be honest. And he was obviously somebody who could build really strong relationships and could make people love him, really. He was probably much more like us than we'd like to think sometimes, to be honest. Just comforting, really, the amount that he did for Christ while still being a normal person who made tents and had community and those sorts of things. Yeah, I think so.

I also think something interesting about this passage is, obviously this passage revolves around the fact that Paul has received a gift from the Philippians. I feel like this is a really good display from the Philippians of this sort of radical and free generosity that Jesus talks about a lot in the Gospels because of the fact that they're sending this gift to an inmate in prison who can't return it. So this is free generosity, which I think is really beautiful. It is really beautiful. There's something

In the context of the culture of the time, there is something more to it than that though, because in the Greco -Roman world, if you gave somebody a gift which they couldn't return, that puts you in a position of social superiority to them. So they became responsible to you, they became accountable to you. There was very much a patron -client relationship. So if you were a sort of ordinary person,

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might attach yourself to a richer person who became your patron and they had responsibilities to you, but you were kind of under the thumb as far as they were concerned because you relied on them. So they had a kind of authority over you. So in this passage, we have Paul writing very, very carefully about the gift which he's been sent because I think he wants to make it really, really clear that he doesn't regard himself

as being in that kind of relationship with them. So, you know, even the way he starts off, he doesn't say, thank you for the money you sent. He says, I rejoice greatly in the Lord, so he's bringing God into it from the beginning, that you have renewed your concern for me. And obviously, tangibly, this is money, but he's saying it's concern. And if you look through the whole of this passage, you can see that he's been quite careful to say,

you're not the boss of me, actually. I don't work for you. This is something that we're sharing together. And I think he's being really careful in how he writes. Verse 17, not that I'm looking for a gift, but I'm looking for what may be credited to your account. So in other words, what you're giving is not for my benefit, it's for your benefit.

you are doing this because we are partners in the gospel and God is looking down at you and thinking, yeah, you're doing a good thing here, you Philippians. And I think that's really interesting, actually. I think that's probably got a lot to say to us today. Yeah, I guess there's that sense of maybe obligation on one hand and yeah, it is an odd dynamic. And I think, well, he might be saying, you know, you're not the boss of me.

I think it's also quite freeing because he's telling them, you know, if they were thinking, did we send enough? Does he need more? You know, was he actually disappointed with our gift? He says, you know, I'm amply supplied now that I've received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. So he's like saying, don't worry about, you don't need to be panicking and sending me more and more. I'm grateful for this gift. We talked the other week about Romans 12, you know, offering your bodies as a sacrifice.

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and that's like a response to God's mercy. So, and it's your true and proper worship. He's saying, yes, you love me and you're concerned for me, but really you're doing this because you love God and this is, you know, you want to see the gospel work continue. So this is you're worshipping God by giving and it's not just about me. And it's not about what we owe each other either.

And, you know, that even fits with him basically in verse 20 saying, to our God and Father be glory forever and ever our many. He wants all the glory to go to God. Yeah. It makes me think actually of when I was a minister a couple of decades ago now, and the relationship between a minister and a congregation is quite, it's an interesting relationship because they pay your stipend, they provide your wages, you know, certainly in my first church.

There were people who had the impression that because they paid my stipend through their offerings, that they had sort of first claim on me, you know, and that they could kind of say what I could do and couldn't do and that kind of thing. It was just one or two people. But you definitely got the impression there that if instead of being at a church event, I was out at an event in the community, they'd say, well, you know, what's he doing? He should be with us. This is what we pay him for. But actually, the relationship is not like that.

it's a partnership in the gospel. And, you know, in my church tradition, we don't talk about a minister being employed. We don't talk about it in that sort of employee way. You are set free to minister by the offerings of the people. And it's a really important distinction, I think. Yeah, I think it's interesting because you're right in saying that

It wouldn't be free giving if I was only giving to a certain minister, I was only giving to a church if they acted in a certain way or they did a certain thing with the money that I'm giving. That's also really interesting if you look at it from the other perspective, which is that as a giver to a church, I have to trust that the church that I'm giving money to is using it wisely and spending it wisely. I think there's a lot of kind of tension there sometimes or a bit of give and take.

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I was thinking about this as I was prepping for this. I don't think I've ever been a part of a church that wasn't saving money to try and get a new church building, to either build a new church building or buy one or buy the church building that we were currently in. And I've, I once attended a church that was a mega church and 10 ,000 people attended the church and they were still trying to build another building.

And I think I've always found that quite frustrating as a church attendee. I guess it's a bit different because, but still when I give to that church, I'm giving freely. This is the church that I give to. This money I'm giving because I feel that I want to be generous, like God is generous to me. And I believe in and I support and I trust this church. But I can also feel from the other perspective sometimes of being like, are we...

Are we building our churches or are we building the kingdom of God on the earth? And how much money do we have saved up within all of these churches? Are there any churches on the planet that don't want a new church building? I'd love to meet those congregations. I've always found it useful when I've been a member of a church and certainly when I sort of went from being really a child attending the church my parents took me to, to then becoming like an adult member of a church.

It was important to go to the church meetings because those sorts of decisions are discussed. And it's not, hopefully, what Mark was kind of saying earlier about wanting to hold people over a barrel, like, well, I'm giving this money and I don't want it to be spent that way. And, you know, it's not a threatening thing, but it's about people in the church being able to see and have that idea of like, well, this is what's involved in doing the work we're doing as a church. If we do this.

that could lead to this really good gospel impact. If we do that, we know, yes, we'd like to do this kind of outreach or support our local community in this way. This is what it will involve. And I think it is important those decisions are kind of transparent and people are on board because as we've discussed, it's a partnership. Yeah. In the passage as well, I find verse 19 really interesting where he says,

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and my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus." So, why I find it interesting is, Mark was saying, or when you were saying, Paul wouldn't have been able to repay the Philippians' gift in kind. Although, to be honest, if Paul and Silas hadn't gone and spread the gospel there, would they have sort of received Christ and that assurance in their salvation? So, how can you really compare?

gifts and the impact that someone's had in your life. But there's that sense as well that sometimes when we're giving to the church or giving in some way, we give and it hurts. You know, we're not just giving out of our plenty. We might be giving and thinking, gosh, you know, I could really do with this money myself. Is this going to put me under pressure? But there's also this reassurance from him. He's like, well, I can't necessarily give this gift back to you, but you have a God.

who will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus. So there's also that trust in giving that even if we're giving and it hurts, we don't need to panic almost because God does take care of us. I don't know if that sounds flippant, but I think the idea is there. Isn't there the parable about the woman who basically gives all she has and it's a tiny amount? It's like a

the smallest coin, but that was everything she had. And Jesus says she's given more than all of these people standing and dripping pouches of coins into the box. And why would she be encouraged to do that? Well, unless there's a God who is looking out for her and taking care of her needs, it's not that she doesn't need anything, but it's that those needs will be met. I mean, I think that's really good what you've just said, and I'm not really challenging that.

I just want to sound a note of caution knowing that, you know, I know, I mean, friends of friends have taken this too literally in the past and ended up getting into serious financial difficulty because every time the church asked for money, they would give money even if they couldn't afford it. I just worry sometimes that if we're over literalist in how we

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interpret these things, then we end up being in the position of tempting God, saying we expect a result from our giving, and that's something we have to avoid as well. But the general thing about trusting in God to look after us and to provide for our needs, I think is bang on. Yeah. It's interesting, Esther, you bring up verse 19. That's sort of one of these famous verses that comes from this passage.

And the other one is verse 13, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And I think something else interesting in this passage is that really for the whole of Philippians four, but the second half is that I think these are verses that we often use out of context. So, you know, you're going to run a marathon or something and people are encouraging you and you say, well, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Or you're in a place of financial need.

and you say, well, I'm confident that God will supply all my needs according to his riches and his glory. I recently heard someone use the, I can do all things through him who strengthens me and then say, well, I've just taken that out of context. So probably shouldn't have said it like that. And it made me wonder kind of what do you guys think about that? Do you think, cause there are so many verses in the Bible like this, aren't there, that we can take out of context and we can use in any situation that we want.

And oftentimes they're not used in the same way that they were used in the passage in scripture. Do you guys think that's okay? Do you think it shouldn't be done? So I don't think it is okay. In this case with I can do all things or the NIV translates it actually, and I think it's trying to make this contextual point and link it back to what he's just been saying. I can do all this through him who gives me strength. I think

If you do take that, I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. The way people take it out of context could lead to disappointment. It could lead to them feeling that, well, but God, you're supposed to come through for me and you haven't. And I don't think this is like a promise that whatever we do and we slap this kind of mentality on it, God's staying to bless. I don't think there's a promise in there of that.

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I think what he's saying in context here, how he's using this, is very much linked to what he said about, you know, I can be content whether I'm in plenty or whether I'm in need, because my contentment is in Christ. And he's saying, I can get through these times of plenty and these times of need, these times of persecution and these times of seeming success with the gospel, because of Christ. It's Him who's given me strength. I don't think it's just like, for

for totally general application? Well, I'm going to come down on slightly the other side. I think sometimes words like this can be really helpful just in putting into words something that we feel, something that we believe. For instance, if I am undertaking a preaching engagement, I feel particularly nervous maybe because it's a big congregation, maybe it's something I haven't.

experienced before, you know, maybe I'm not quite sure that I know what I want to say even when I get up into the pulpit or something, then that verse, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, might come into my mind and it might be really, really helpful to me, even though it has nothing to do with what Paul is talking about in Philippians. So, it's just a form of words which speaks to a particular situation.

even if it's being taken out of context. But I think that's it, and this is where I am agreeing with you, I think it's different to take that as a sort of, you know, as a gift from God, as a sudden gift from God in a particular situation. I think it's different to do that than it is to kind of build a course of action upon that or take that as some sort of theological statement which is applicable to all situations.

So I think it's a both and. I think you have to know what it means in context, but I think you can sometimes take it as a gift to be used outside that context. Does that make sense? Yeah, I agree. I think if I say I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, it makes me think about the fact that the Bible says that nothing is impossible with God. Like things like that where I can say I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. It's a sort of

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talking more about Him, I guess, than it's talking about me. All things are possible with God. But I get what you're saying, that I'm not saying that God has spoken that specifically into the situation that I'm in at that moment, but that there's a biblical truth behind that, that I can tap into, essentially. The biblical truth is that Christ is our source of strength, no matter the circumstances, whatever it is we're trying to do in obedience and service to Him.

He's our source of strength. But I think how this can be applied, like sometimes it's like, yeah, did you mention like running a marathon? If I was really struggling and I was about to like stumble at mile 24, will I get to the end? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. What I might need is a gel, you know, a carbohydrate gel and the water and to slow down a bit. And, you know, I will get to the end. But I think

Sometimes we spiritualize things that aren't spiritual by saying this, and then does it lose its power if we keep saying that? And it's not really about serving God, being obedient to God and our struggles in that and Him giving us strength, but it's just about any old thing that we're struggling to do in that moment that might have nothing to do with glorifying God.

Yeah, I think that's what I'm saying really. I mean, we shouldn't build that sort of attitude of mind on a text like that because that wouldn't be true to the biblical origins of it. But I think sometimes we can just take that and say, right, well, you know, these words mean something to me now. And I don't think that's wrong at all, to be honest. I mean, there's another text which is very much overused, I think. It's Jeremiah 29. I know the plans I have for you to prosper and not to harm you.

future and hope, which people take as applicable to the life of the individual, your life, my life. God has a wonderful plan for your life. Well, I don't think we should be building that kind of theology on that verse because it's not intended for that. It's very definitely for a particular point in Israel's history. And I think that's a verse which is very much misused actually. But there are other verses that I think, yeah, you can

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These are words that you can take, you can use and just be thankful to God that you have them. Yeah, it's good. That's all we're going to get to today. But thank you guys both for a good conversation on Philippians. We're going to have one more episode in this series, which will be next week. It will be a sort of wrap up. So looking over the things in the whole of the book that we feel maybe we missed or that we'd really love to kind of touch on and discuss. So we're looking forward to that.

If you have any questions about anything we've said so far in this series, we'd still really love to hear them. Feel free to send those in to biblesociety .org .uk forward slash rooted questions. And if we can work those into our next episode, we definitely will. And that's it. If you love the podcast, please feel free to leave us a rating or a review. We so appreciate it. And we will see you next week for another episode. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Rooted Podcast. To find out more about Bible Society's mission, to invite people to discover the Bible for themselves.

England, Wales and around the world, visit biblesociety .org .uk