The Rooted Podcast

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Eating and drinking Jesus is symbolic for internalizing all that Jesus is. Jesus seems to have been deliberately offensive here. This isn't actually about bread, and it's not even about the miracle. It's about eternal life and where you can get that. John's also showing us the great contrast between what these people's ancestors never had and never could have and what is now available to them through Jesus. He's highlighting

the differences between Jesus and Moses. And he's saying, well, Jesus is greater still. God provides more than enough. There is something I think he loves about abundance. This is not just about what Jesus can do, the power that he has and the miracles that he can perform, but it's about who he is. You're listening to the Rooted Podcast from Bible Society. In each series, we take a closer look at a theme or book of the Bible and explore its relevance in our lives today.

This is our series on John's Gospel. Hi everyone, welcome back to The Rooted Podcast. I'm Noelle and I'm here with Mark and Esther and we're here for another series of podcasts. Thank you so much to everyone who has been listening and following along with us. We're so grateful for all of the great love and feedback we've got. This series is going to be all about the book of John. We've just released Bible Society's devotional journal, Rooted, the John edition, just in time for sort of the lead up to Easter.

We're going to have seven episodes in this series, and each of those episodes is going to focus on a different I Am statement that Jesus gives in the book of John. So if you didn't know the way that John structures his gospel, one of the ways is there are sort of these sets of seven that you can find all throughout John. John's seven signs and the seven I Am statements of Jesus.

So we thought it'd be really interesting just to look at each of those and see what John is telling us about Jesus and what we can pull out of the Gospel of John. Today we're going to start with the first I Am statement found in John, which is in John 6, verse 35. Jesus says, am the bread of life. So we're going to start by looking at the very beginning of John 6, which is one of John's seven signs, the feeding of the 5,000.

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So basically a large crowd has followed Jesus and they have nothing to eat. They're in a remote place and they don't have any food and Jesus feeds the 5,000. So what he does is he basically tests his disciples by asking them, where are we going to buy bread so that all these people may eat? And they basically, they don't have the food, but there is a boy there who has five loaves and two fish.

And as many of us know the story, Jesus multiplies the food and there's enough for 5,000 men plus women and children to eat and there's even leftovers. And then it's just interesting because so many verses later in John 6 is where Jesus gets into talking about how he is the bread of life. And there seems to be real connection between this sign and this I am statement from Jesus. So we wanted to start by just looking at this.

What we think are some of maybe the key things to pull out of this sign? What is John telling us about Jesus? What are some of the, yeah, just interesting things that we see here? Thought I knew this story really well, and it's in other gospels as well. And I thought, yeah, well maybe one of the things to pull out is that Jesus didn't feed the 5,000. You know, so I've preached on this before in Matthew's version, and what happens in Matthew is that Jesus

gives the food to his disciples and they distribute it. So I thought, oh yeah, that's an interesting one. And so I looked at John and it's completely different because it says that Jesus himself takes the food and distributes it and it sort of multiplied the miracle is from his own hands. And I don't think it makes any difference to the sort of historicity side of things at all. I mean, if Jesus did it, his disciples did it, you know, it doesn't matter. But why does John put it in that way? I wonder.

Yeah, I definitely think that John includes some very intentional details in this account that are beyond just the facts of there were 5,000 men plus women and children who were hungry and needed food to eat and then they were fed. And not just fed a little bit, enough to stop them collapsing on the way home, not just enough to satisfy them, but actually there was leftover food.

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But beyond that, there are details like John says that the people are seeking after him because they've seen these miracles that he's done already, like the healing of the official's son and the healing of the man by the pool, Bethesda, or at the sheep's gate. So they're looking for more of this. And also you mentioned it, Noel, that it says that

Jesus was testing the disciples when he said, how are going to feed these people? John says that Jesus already knew what he was going to do. why, what is that test? I think it's quite clear from the way that John's account is written that this is not just about what Jesus can do, you know, the power that he has and the miracles that he can perform, but it's about who he is.

And think that's why we tend to call these not just miracles in John, but signs. are specifically messianic signs that are pointing to the fact that he is the son of God.

I think another thing that struck me is how in Exodus and the story of the manna, the manna just appears and the bread of heaven is sent directly from God. But in this miracle, which seems to relate to that, Jesus actually uses what other people bring him.

So he uses what the small boy brings and it's that that is multiplied. So there's a kind of human agency here and a human element in what's happening. know, it's not like he sort of magic stuff up. He takes what people give him and uses that. I guess the one other thing as well is that in that, I think it's in verse four, John makes sure to mention that

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Passover is approaching. And I think with all the talk of bread and the history from the time before, but also what we know, we know as readers comes after, that's significant, isn't it? Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I also love the fact that there's leftovers, because it doesn't seem necessary. Why did he make more than what they needed? And I love that. I feel like it speaks to the fact that God

provides more than enough. There is something I think he loves about abundance, and I think we see that here as well. You know, it's not just the bread for today and their needs of that day, but it's the bread stretching on for tomorrow and the day after and the day after. And although that's not explicitly said in this account, there's so much talk in there. know, Jesus is constantly, he's not just saying, I'm the bread of life. He's saying, this is about eternal life. In me, you can have eternal life. So we need, we're going to need

it, we're going to need sustenance, bread, forever. What's going to sustain us for eternal life? And I think this is so important actually, because there's this idea of abundance and richness and having not just enough to get by, but having more than enough. And I think that's a theme throughout this story, actually throughout this chapter. And I think maybe that's something to bear in mind when we come to think of Jesus.

calling himself the bread of life as well. Yeah. I guess there does seem to be quite a purposeful link here from John between the fact that right after we see Jesus provide bread for people, he says that he's the bread of life. It just got me thinking a bit about symbolism in John, which we're obviously going to come to as we sort of look at these 7 IM statements in this series. I do think he does use symbolism quite a lot.

doesn't he? And this is one of them. There is something about eating Jesus that he sort of wants to hit home, which I think is really interesting. And we see it other places too. I was thinking about how before this, I don't know if we'll touch on this in later episodes, but in chapter four with the woman in the well, Jesus says that he's living water. So we've already sort of encountered Jesus in John's gospel as something that we take in.

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and that we internalize. I do think John is trying to get at something. He's trying to present Jesus in a certain way to us using symbols, which I just find really interesting. think growing up, I sort of thought that the gospels were just random collections of stories that people remembered about Jesus. But to think that John is actually really purposefully trying to get us somewhere using metaphor and symbolism, I think it's really exciting. I love that about this gospel.

There certainly is this element of metaphor, symbol, imagery being used to communicate really deep, big spiritual truths that we need to understand about Jesus to grasp who He is for us and the relationship that's there. Yeah, there are layers of meaning, aren't there?

use the word metaphor, Esther. And I think that's really true because all of these I am sayings are metaphors, aren't they? And they're kind of backed up by stories, which kind of amplify them and explain them. they're saying, you know, Jesus is basically saying, I am, you know, the vine, the gate, the door, you know, whatever it might be. And that means so much more than appears on the surface.

That's such a cool thing about John because you can read it through for the first time as a new believer and you'll still get something from it, but then you can read it through again and again and again and like the rest of scripture. I think especially John, you can get so much more. Something we want to of focus on as we look at this I Am statement is the fact that you have the feeding of the 5,000 in verses 1 through 14. Then when you get to verse 26,

you sort of have the aftermath of that miracle or you have a sort of conversation that happens surrounding that miracle. And most of it is Jesus speaking. But what is really interesting about this passage is there are tons of links that you can find between this passage and the Exodus story, specifically the story of the Israelites wandering in the wilderness. And Marcus said earlier, there's a connection between sort of Moses and Jesus, but we also see the connection between

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the manna that came down from heaven and now Jesus being the bread that has come down from heaven. I wonder if we can pull a few things out here and specifically sort of just to talk about what is John trying to do for the reader that would have been reading this when he wrote it, but also for us now, why the connection between these two and what are the connections that we can find. It's there in the whole I am, the first part of each of these statements. Jewish believers,

would instantly have thought of Exodus 3, Moses, the burning bush and God revealing himself, having this special name, I am who I am. And why these statements are so stunning, partly, you know, one of the layers is that it's a claim of his divinity. He's saying, I'm the same as that God in a way. I am the Messiah that's been promised. I'm his son.

I think that's the first link that I make is the claim to divinity and the mirroring of how God introduced himself to Moses. I'm less convinced about that to be honest, Cesta. I have read that in commentaries and I find myself thinking, well, I am is a fairly common expression. If you're going to use a metaphor, then that is the way that you state your metaphor, really. I'm not entirely convinced about the link to

Exodus 3, though I might be completely alone here and obviously I might be completely wrong. But I certainly think that there is a direct sort of compare and contrast with Moses. There's a lot going on here. I mean, at one point in the story, Jesus goes up to a mountain, for instance. Well, Moses goes up to a mountain. Moses is

He's not called a king, but he's quite a kingly figure, isn't he? He's in absolute control of the people of Israel. you know, obviously the Jesus Jewish hearers at the time, they cast him in that sort of role and he is resisting it. You know, he's saying, not actually like that at all. So that's a link as well. I think it's the way the story's told.

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Who really begins that connection that Jesus makes with Moses? Because it's the people who bring up Moses and say, you know, he's saying, you want another sign, basically. And they say, well, you know, Moses gave us manna in the desert. And then he kind of goes down on that track saying, well, firstly, it wasn't Moses that gave you the bread from heaven. That was my father. So he's making another claim, isn't he there? My father to his divinity.

And secondly, that bread isn't the true bread. I'm the true bread because I'm the one who's been sent. So I'm just, I think it's right that we draw the connections with Moses, but I'm wondering who started that in this account? So yes, I think that's right. I it is the people in the story who pick up this idea of Moses. But it's worth noticing, I think, that one of the stories that was current about the coming of the Messiah,

was that the Messiah would replicate the story of the manna so that the Messiah would bring bread from heaven in exactly that way. And so they're saying, you know, are you the Messiah? Well, prove it. And you might think, well, gosh, you know, he's just multiplied loaves and fishes. What more do you want? But it's obviously not quite the same miracle, which is another example of maybe them just not getting it basically. Yeah. I think that's brilliant though, because

At beginning of this passage, it tells us that it's Passover. And you'd think that if it was Passover and that was nearing, they would be in Jerusalem, but they're here on a mountain in apparently a remote area because they can't go get any food. So it's interesting because you have Israelites in the wilderness in Exodus. And here you have Israelites in the wilderness, basically, with Jesus. The Israelites in the wilderness in Exodus are grumbling because the bread that they're being offered isn't the bread that they want.

basically. And here, the Israelites are grumbling because the bread that they're being offered isn't the bread that they want, basically. And so think that connection is really interesting. And Jesus even says in verse 43, do not grumble among yourselves. And they just can't understand because of familiarity. They say in verse 42, is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? So they're not happy either. They're complaining just like the Israelites were.

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Well, I think it comes back to what we were saying a little bit earlier about spiritual truths that Jesus is trying to communicate through both His signs, the things He does, and then His statements, the things He says. Because all through this account, it's a really long chapter, John 6, but there's this battle with the people kind of thinking very literally and not...

seeing the sign, not seeing what it's actually pointing out. They're so stuck on sort of the physical, material, either because that's what they're seeking, they want to fill their bellies, or because when Jesus tries to explain this or follows up on their connection with Moses and the manna, they're just thinking about, they're thinking very literally. So yeah, I think it's really important when in verse 27,

Jesus sort of speaks directly to that. He says, not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the son of man will give to you. So this, I think this gets at the heart. It's like a little thing that's dropped into the account. We haven't got the full realisation of the argument yet, but he's saying, look, this isn't actually about bread and it's not even about the miracle.

it's about eternal life and where you can get that. think you're absolutely right Esther. it struck me that, you know, we live in a wealthy country, we all have enough food to eat, we can choose the kind of bread that we have, nice olive bread from Waitrose or just, you know, your standard brown hovis or something. you know, we've got all this choice. But the people that were listening to Jesus at the time, you know, they knew what hunger was like. And they were only

there were only one bad harvest away from starvation a lot of the time. It was real subsistence living. So for Jesus to sort of prioritize this spiritual aspect of life and to say, well, bread is nothing really, physical bread is nothing compared with what I have to give to you, that was a much bigger thing than we might imagine it to be today. I mean, how would we like it if somebody said to us, well, don't worry about being hungry?

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don't worry if you don't know where your next meal is coming from. This is more important. We'd be likely to say, well, sorry, is that really true? But that was the challenge that Jesus brought them, wasn't it? Yeah, that's a great point. When Jewish people are reading this, they're going to be thinking, their brains will be lighting up with, this is just like what I've read in this passage. Why do we think that John is highlighting this connection?

between this passage and sort of the wilderness, what is he trying to communicate to them? think the reason why John is highlighting this connection is because Moses was this incredible figure in Jewish history and he was the greatest of the great and so on and so forth. And he's highlighting

not the similarities between Jesus and Moses. He's highlighting the differences between Jesus and Moses. And he's saying, well, Jesus is greater still. And he's saying, well, you all the things that you associate with Moses, you can associate with Jesus only more so. And I think this comes to a point when Jesus actually says,

I am the bread of life. Because the manor in the wilderness was associated with Moses as a miracle, but Moses was not the bread of life. You know, the Jews thought of the Torah and the books of wisdom as the bread of life. And, you know, the bread of life as a saying was something which they would associate with the Torah and the books of wisdom. But then Jesus comes and Jesus says, well,

I am the bread of life. you know, Moses never said that about himself. Jesus is saying that he's greater than the Torah, greater than the books of wisdom. And that's an amazing thing to say, really. That's brilliant. Yeah. I think it is a bit of what he's going to continue on saying in the next passage that we read and in this sort of verses 26 to 40, the idea that they had bread that

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only gave them sustenance for a day. But he is the bread of life and he is eternal life. So I think John's also showing us the great contrast between what these people's ancestors never had and never could have and what is now available to them through Jesus. Yeah, I think this idea of the bread of life which satisfies eternally is just really in tune with what John says elsewhere, what he recalls Jesus is saying elsewhere because

You think back to John 4 and the story of the woman at the well, it says, New International Version, Jesus said, everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. The water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life. And again, this idea is there of eternal satisfaction. know, bread of life, you'll never be hungry.

in eternity, water of life, you will never be thirsty for eternity. And it's just this John theme really running throughout the book. Well, and it links back to Moses again and the wilderness with the water from the rock, doesn't it? You know, the occasions where he brings water for them to drink. Because I thought that was interesting actually going back to John 6 where he talks about being the bread of heaven, but then he actually says,

Yeah, I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me shall not hunger and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. And you're like, hang on, where does the thirst thing come in here? But it's all part of that same account of God's provision in the wilderness, but the greater provision in Christ. I think John actually continues that as well because at Jesus's crucifixion, we have the moment where the Roman soldier

puts a spear into his side and out comes water and blood. And there's so many people who have talked about medical reasons for that, but that's definitely not what John was thinking. You can totally see the metaphor of Moses striking the rock, Jesus being the rock. So yeah, I love that about John. think it's brilliant. there's the wedding at Cana as well. Yes, water into wine. Water into wine and not just

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any old wine, it's the best wine. There's loads of it. You also have in John 5, the Pool of Bethesda, there's a man trying to be healed by getting into water. And that's right after the chapter we've just been told that Jesus is living water. Yeah, I love it. I think it's the coolest thing. Yeah.

If we keep reading in this passage, we get to a very popular passage of Jesus' in John, which is where he says some very offensive things. I'm just going to read just part of it, so I'm sure you'll have heard it before. If you've read John, you'll recognize it. Starting in verse 53, Jesus says,

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He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him upon the last day. For my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him." So on a very sort of surface level reading, this is offensive because you think cannibalism or you think

Why is this man telling us to eat his flesh? Even they say it, how can he offer his flesh for us to eat? But there is probably more, as we've said, lots underneath this and more layers. So what is so offensive about this? And then what do think Jesus is getting at by saying this? Well, I think it would be offensive if it was meant literally. In all sort of the Jewish laws and purity laws, there are things about not touching dead things and

You're not supposed to consume like blood. I think if we think about interpreting scripture through other scripture, I think it's clear that this isn't meant to be taken literally, but the people at the time are struggling with that because they can't think of what it could mean if it's not a literal meaning. think what's happening is that the metaphor is being varied.

here because he's been talking about himself as the bread of life. And I think there is a switch here to him talking about himself as a sacrificial victim. And in the ancient world, an animal would be sacrificed. And in some types of sacrifice, the flesh of the animal would be consumed by the worshiper. know, you can see that in the Old Testament. It was a very common thing. They didn't just

burn an animal, destroy an animal routinely, partly because people needed food. But it was a way of communicating with the divine. It's not just the Hebrew sacrificial system, it's a generally understood way of doing worship that you would sacrifice an animal and that you would feed on the flesh of the animal and you would participate in that meal.

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with God. And that's what he's saying. So I think he's looking forward to his own sacrificial death in what he says here. And that, of course, what we kind of, you know, however we understand communion, there is that element within it that we are kind of recapitulating that sacrifice, that sacrificial death of Jesus. And when we eat the bread and

We drink the wine, that's what we're doing. The sacrifice on our behalf. It's a huge theme in John, isn't it? In John 1, you've got John the Baptist pointing at Jesus and saying, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, pointing him out, basically saying he is going to be the sacrificial lamb. Jesus, yeah, I definitely see that shift that you mentioned, Mark, because

I think it's slightly before he goes into this discourse, he talks about, yeah, and the bread that I give, sorry, and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh. So that's before he then goes in, I think that's verse 51. So he's already shifted to this idea of like, I'm giving something for the world. If you think we've already had as well in John 3, those famous verses.

God so loved the world that he sent his only son and so on. So I think he is now shifting into a slightly different narrative. I did think it was interesting though, because I can't help thinking of the Last Supper either when I read this and think about this sort of idea of eating the flesh, drinking the blood, somehow partaking and also remembering Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. But it's really interesting that actually in John's gospel, that

part of the Last Supper where Jesus gives them the cup and says, this is my blood and where he gives them the bread and says, this is my body. That's not in the Gospel of John. So you'd think that if he was here in this passage, really making a direct connection and pointing forward to the Last Supper, that he would sort of cement that by definitely having it in chapter 13. He's got the washing of the disciples' feet.

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the whole thing about what he says with the bread and the wine is not in the Gospel of John. So I thought that was very intriguing. Yeah, it is. Because I was thinking here a little bit, what I was thinking was, well, John has told us at the beginning of this chapter that the Passover was near, so am I supposed to make some sort of connection that Jesus is the Lamb and He's the sacrifice here when I'm reading about eating His flesh and drinking His blood? But I wonder

I think Mark, you've said something about this to us before, but I wonder if it's a bit of Jesus is the sacrifice. And maybe that's why that passage isn't in there because he himself is the flesh and the blood. The other thing that's so interesting about this passage is obviously, I think you can't help, even if you understand it not to be literal, but to be metaphorical. Someone saying, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, there's no life in you.

You are going to have a visceral response to that because it's saying something pretty heavyweight, isn't it? And we should be asking, well, what does that mean? But the only answers that you've well, that I've sort of found in this passage are, for example, a bit earlier when Jesus introduces this idea about eternal life, or a bit earlier in chapter six, and the people say, what work do we have to do?

be doing the work of God. And later, when they're sort of asking, you know, well, give us this bread all the time then, but they're not realizing exactly what that is. Jesus kind of says to them, the work or the important thing is to believe. So literally, well, let's not use the word literally, but this whole point about eating his flesh, drinking his blood.

Metaphorically, that means for us to believe and trust in Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. And that sounds a lot more palatable to me, but maybe it's not, you know, it sounds easy, but is it easy to completely identify with Jesus in that way and to be identified with him? Jesus seems to have been deliberately offensive here. You know, he really meant it to...

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to strike home to people that this is weird, this is unpleasant, this is not something we want to hear. And so it's as though this aspect of belief and trust is meant to be difficult. Well, in fact, he says it's impossible unless the Father has drawn them to him. That's a repeated thing in this passage where Jesus saying, well, look, even though you've seen the signs, you haven't believed, but

I'm not going to lose any of those that my father has sort of chosen for me. Sorry, that's a paraphrase. But yeah, I think that's another really hard to understand, I think, part of this teaching. What's the role of the father? What's the role of the son? what's this passage or this whole chapter is clearly asking us to respond in some way. And it's asking the disciples at the time to respond in a certain way. But it's also saying that unless

God has done something spiritual in them, they won't be able to respond. They won't be able to see it. So it's really complicated. Well, I do think the link that you've just made between eating the bread and believing is the link that John is trying to get us to see. Because we also have, for the first time he tells us in verse 56, he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. That's new.

That's the first time we're hearing of this, can be in Christ and Christ can be in me. And we hear it again in John 17, but this is the first time we're hearing it. now, eating the bread, you he said eating the bread is eternal life. Now eating the bread is because I'm in, puts me in Jesus and puts Jesus in me. So I do think that eating the bread, eating and drinking Jesus is symbolic for internalizing all that Jesus is.

and I believe in Him and He becomes my life. I think that's what John is getting at. It makes you think of that passage in Galatians 2 verse 20, I think. have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and so on and gave His life for me. That's good.

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There's an interesting quote from C.H. Spurgeon about communion. And he says,

with our innermost being. And I just thought that was really interesting to relate that, you know, to relate the communion to what we've been talking about in terms of eating and drinking, you know, eating the flesh of Christ. Yeah, that's really good. So what is our response to this in our lives? So Jesus is the bread of life. There's always brilliant

connections that we can find in the Old Testament with this passage. But what is the connection for us in our day-to-day lives that Jesus is the bread of life? What do we take away from this? For me, it's this idea of abundance, I think. I mean, I like bread. I don't like to eat too much of it, but I really do enjoy eating bread. And there is this richness about it, which I really

I really love. And to me, that's what the idea of the bread of life says, I think. There's a hymn which has the line, religion never was designed to make our pleasures less. And I always like that because if you get religion wrong, it can be a terribly narrowing thing and it can be a joyless and joy killing thing.

And faith should never be like that. And being a Christian, being a disciple should make us more joyful. I won't say happier because that's a thin word, but it should make us more joyful, it seems to me. And when I read the word bread of life, that's the kind of thing that it says to me. Yeah. I mean, I would share that, but I would also say that I really identify in this story. I can't help it with the people who just don't get it for so long.

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and they don't get it in so many different ways. They're seeking Jesus, we're like, great, there's nobody better to seek, but they're seeking him for the wrong reasons. Then when he tries to explain what he's offering to them, which is even better than what they originally were looking for, they don't understand it. It sounds repulsive to them in certain way and they're tempted to turn away. I just think there's really encouraging for me actually.

but also very down to earth about the disciples who stay. When Jesus says to them, you know, are you going to leave me too at the end? And they say, well, where else should we go? Because you have the words of eternal life. So that's them doing what Jesus asked them to do. That's them eating the flesh, drinking the blood in the sense of believing. They believe that he is who he's trying to say he is. He's the Messiah. They don't understand how.

all this works. So when Jesus is saying some of the difficult teachings, they don't necessarily get that, but they are going to put their trust in Him and believe that He will bring it about. And yeah, I find that encouraging because I don't get it all. I'm sure I get even less than I think I've understood, but I'm going to trust in Jesus that He will be the bread, He will be the life.

He is the way to eternal life. Yeah, that's good. I think for me, I was thinking about this time I took communion once with a pastor that I was under and there was a group of us and he brought like tons of bread, like way too much bread that you would normally need for communion. And he put it on the table and he just said, we always take little pieces of bread for communion. But today I want us to take a lot of bread for communion. I want us to just eat it. So we all took this like giant, off this giant

pieces of bread. We didn't drink like tons of wine. had to jump. We didn't eat tons of bread. But his whole point was like, there is lots for you to take from Jesus. There's lots in the kingdom for you. We don't have to just take a little. He has a lot for us. So I guess a similar thing to what Marcus said, but I was just thinking about that. And I think that's what stuck with me of this passage as well, is that there is abundance and Jesus is the eternal bread of life.

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There's always more from Him. So I love that. We'll end there. Thank you both for a great conversation. And we will be back next week for another episode on another I Am Statement of Jesus. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the podcast, you can give us a review or a rating and we'd be really thankful for that. We also love to hear your questions. If you have any questions about what we said, you can send them in to biblesociety.org.uk forward slash rooted questions. And we will.

love to see those and maybe answer some of those in a future episode.