The Rooted Podcast

You're listening to The Rooted Podcast from Bible Society, a Christian organisation that invites people to discover the life -giving power of the Bible by translating, publishing, and distributing it around the world. In each series of The Rooted Podcast, we dig deeper into a theme or book of the Bible and explore its message for us today. This is series one, Sermon on the Mount.

Welcome to the Rooted Podcast. Welcome to episode two. This episode, we're going to be talking about Matthew 5, chapter 5, the Sermon on the Mount, looking at verses 21 through 30. So I'm here with Mark and Esther. Hello, Mark. Hello, Esther. Hello. Hi. Good to be back. Yep. We're good. Yeah, we're just going to start by reading this passage and then we'll just get into a conversation. So.

starting in verse 21, reading this in the NIV. So Jesus says, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, you shall not murder and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Anyone who says to a brother or sister, Raka is answerable to the court. And anyone who says you fool will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Therefore, if you're offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them and then come back and offer your gift. Settle matters quickly with your adversary who has taken you to court. Do it while you're still together on the way or your adversary may hand you over to the judge and the judge may hand you over to the officer and you may be thrown into prison.

Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." We'll stop there for now. Have a chat about this. I thought we could start just by asking the question. Something I think as I read this is Jesus, this thing that he says, he actually says it just before this in verse 17. Do not think that I have come to abolish the law of the prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfil them. And then he repeats this phrase again and again as we go through the Sermon on the Mount. You have heard it said,

I say. I thought it'd be interesting to see what you guys think about this. I think for me, it seems weird because he says, I've not come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it. But then it kind of sounds like he's abolishing the law because he says, you've heard it said, but I say do this. So he says he's not going to do something. And then it kind of sounds like that's what he's doing. I don't know, because I didn't necessarily read it like that. I suppose you could. But I think of it as him.

It's a continuation of that thought. He's kind of trying to say, well, this is what it looks like. Because I guess we've got these, from my personal point of view, I find this passage incredibly convicting. I'm sure we can get into that in a bit. But he's saying, well, so what does it really look like to follow this law in the way that it's actually meant to be followed?

And these are specific kind of illustrations, which I think all of us can relate to. So, yeah, I don't see it as him abolishing it. I see it as him illustrating what it looks like. Yes. But it is put in a really provocative way, isn't it? I mean, if you think about how the Jews of the time, well, and today as well, saw what we call the Old Testament, I mean, that was God's revelation. And you showed your love for God.

by keeping the law. And what God said was what God said, and that was that. So for Jesus to say, oh, you've heard that it was said to those people who lived long ago this, but I say that. I mean, he's deliberately making that very provocative, isn't he? He's deliberately, I think he's making a claim for himself that he's got something really, really new to bring. Yeah, and further, he's not saying, I've come, I've not come.

to abolish the law but to obey it. He doesn't say that either, right? But to fulfil it. So he's not saying, I want you to obey this, which sounds provocative as well, but that I've come to be the fulfilment of it. But to me, that means he's not saying to do away with the Hebrew scriptures, right? At all. No. No. I feel like he's saying the opposite. Yeah, Jesus himself doesn't really make sense without the Hebrew scriptures. Those are so important. But he's saying...

I guess when I read it, I think he's saying, I've come to be the thing that the law was pointing towards. That is going to be me. That is me. That's what I think that he's saying when he says, I've come to fulfil the law. Not doing away with it. I think that's really helpful, actually. And I've got the Good News Bible open in front of me. And that verse in the Good News Bible says, I've not come to do away with them.

but to make their teachings come true, which is another interesting way of putting it, isn't it, really? So, back to Jesus, it's in Jesus that we see these teachings actually fulfilled. And in what Jesus said and how Jesus lived, His example and everything, we can see what the Old Testament law was pointing towards. Yeah?

Yeah, well, and just back to your point about him being deliberately provocative, right at the end of the entire Sermon on the Mount, there's this short bit about people's reaction to what he said, and they say he taught with authority. And so I guess, yeah, when we hear these provocative statements, there is something in that, isn't there? He's speaking with a different kind of authority on these matters than anybody else can. Yeah.

Yeah. And in the passage which we're looking at today, the one that you read for us Noel, this is where the rubber hits the road, isn't it? You know, he says, you have heard that people were told in the past, do not commit murder, but now I tell you, whoever is angry with his brother, etc. So he's sort of shifting it onto a different level, isn't he? Yeah. But do you think that there's also...

a correction implied here. He's correcting people from the way that they've been misinterpreting the law perhaps. So I was reading a commentary, John Stott's commentary on this passage, and he was considering whether maybe the people at the time, there was this idea that as long as you don't actually murder anyone,

you're completely righteous in the eyes of the law. And what he's trying to say is like, obviously, we all agree we shouldn't murder someone. And we have justice processes that deal with that. But what's really going on in your heart? Because there might be murder in your heart. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? So it's a kind of

Jack Morris (07:27.148)
You know, not killing somebody is a fairly low bar, you know, it's fairly minimalist. I mean, I've often been angry with people, but I've never actually murdered anybody, you'd be glad to know. But so, you know, it's pretty minimal. And Jesus is asking something much, much more, isn't he? Yeah, right. So, he's placing a bigger... He's saying that he actually values...

what we say and what we think in our hearts more than they maybe realised that he cared about those things. Because I guess when you think about calling someone an idiot or a fool, I think, oh, how does that make me feel if someone calls me that? And I guess what it makes me feel is that I'm not worth very much. I think it's interesting because Jesus, I think what he's saying is when you value someone, when you would call someone that, you're saying to them or you're valuing them at a level much lower than what

I've said that they are, like they're made in my likeness and my image and instead you're valuing them as nothing. Yeah, I think that's key, that whole idea about, you know, murder is wrong because, you know, we have been made in God's image. There is something special and precious about us. Yeah. And that is an incredibly evil thing to do, to take that life. But if it's to do with our value, then yeah, exactly. When we express

contempt for people when we talk about them in a way that's just like, well, we don't need to listen to that person or value their thoughts or their contribution because they're an idiot. We are violating them and we're violating them as image bearers of God. Yeah, that's really interesting. And what you've just said, Esther, makes me think about how we are at work as well. Because, you know, nobody in our

workplace at Bible Society, nobody's ever going to say to somebody, you're an idiot, or anything like that, you're a fool. But, and we have, I think we have a really good workplace culture as well. That doesn't worry me in that sense. But you can think of, you know, examples of how you might treat somebody with a lack of respect, you know, they come to you with an idea.

and you're obviously dismissive of it as though it doesn't matter. And so it's not necessarily just the language that you use, it's your behavior, which we really need to watch, I think. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think it's really good. I think too, it's interesting because so when you read this, it says, anyone who says you fool will be in danger of the fire of hell. I think when I read that, I think,

what you're saying, Mark, the way that I treat someone, if I'm talking to them as being less than, the way I read it is, I've then become someone who's worthy of going to this place of complete worthlessness, right? If we're saying hell is just a place of complete nothingness. I've almost lowered myself. Like I think Jesus is saying, this affects me when I say this thing to this person. It makes me think of, I wrote it, it's Matthew 15, 18.

when Jesus says, but evil words come from an evil heart and defile the person who says them. So it's like, when I call you an idiot, I become someone in danger of the fire of hell. Like I've actually put myself, I've defiled myself with my own words, I think. So it's twofold, really. Yeah, and I think this does also stray into an interesting conversation about, you know,

I guess because he mentions hell, that evokes this image about eternal judgment, doesn't it? Or judgment in general. But if you think about, I mean, in our society, you know, we've got bills, haven't we, about hate speech, for example. And, you know, how do you police someone's thoughts? Should you? Who gets to decide what is hate speech and what isn't? Like, this is a really difficult area trying to get into.

Well, just in society trying to deal with what we say and think. And I think it does acknowledge that these things can be very problematic. But the focus here has moved from maybe a court of law to God, hasn't it? And what, you know, God does know our inner thoughts. He does know the intentions that we have. So, you know, it's talking about his judgment here instead of something that we might do in our society. And I think that's a really...

there is no higher standard, is there? And there's no more final word than God's Word. And Jesus is really pointing out how serious it is to think and speak and then probably act in these ways. Yeah. I think one of the other interesting things here is, well, I checked back to Psalm 14.

because that's the one that says, the fool has said in his heart there is no God. And so that word fool comes back again. But if you look at that psalm in context, it's actually talking about people's behaviour. So the fool says in his heart there is no God, they are corrupt, their deeds are vile, there is no one who does good. So it's

a way I think of saying that, you know, somebody is avoiding responsibility for their actions by saying, look, there's nobody actually monitoring this. You know, nobody overlooking me and seeing how I'm behaving. So to call somebody a fool is to cast reflections on their moral character.

Well, and like you were saying earlier, Noelle, when you were talking about you saying it has implications for you, even if the focus was on somebody else's behaviour or something like that, even if that's what you thought you were focusing at, it does something for you. I guess this reminds us that we're all ultimately answerable to God. Yeah, yeah, really good. And then if we go on, we find out what we're to do if we've called someone an idiot and are in the middle of giving a gift to the Lord.

So verse 23, if you're offering a gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister is something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar, first go and be reconciled to them, and then come and offer your gift. Well, that's very interesting as well, isn't it? But Jesus was delivering this sermon in Galilee and

the only place that you could offer a gift at the altar was Jerusalem, which was a good three days' walk away from where Jesus was delivering the sermon. So, he seems to be saying that if you are in Jerusalem about to give you a gift at the altar, and you remember that your brother in Galilee has got something against you, you jolly well walk all the way back to Nazareth or Capernaum or wherever.

you go and be reconciled with them and then you walk all the way back to Jerusalem. So how about that? I think again, just the actual mechanics of that then that the hearers of the time would have been able to appreciate a lot more immediately than we can. You know, it's again saying, look, this is serious. Don't just skip over this because, you know, your offerings at the altar, your worship to me,

somehow they're not going to be genuine and acceptable somehow if you've got this that you have not dealt with first. But I mean, I do wonder how we can translate this to our experience today. I mean, sometimes firstly, I might think, thank goodness for mobile phones. I can just call someone, just nip out of the church service and no, you know what I'm saying. But also it's kind of, if I

I mean, I hope that I'm not offending people left, right and centre, you know, wronging them, but would I ever actually be ready to worship?

Because, yeah, I mean, it's such a high standard again. What do we do with it today? Well, I mean, that's interesting. For me, my mind goes to the communion service, actually, where in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says that we should examine ourselves and so eat of the bread, drink of the cup. In other words, we have to try and come.

with a clean heart. And, you know, we should confess, we should be reconciled before we come to communion. So I think all of this is in the context of us not being perfect people. You know, we're never going to be able to come to communion, we're never going to be able to worship God in a really pure fashion.

because we're human and we're flawed and we're never going to be perfect. But the grace is for us really and it's up to us to show grace to other people. So we come in that spirit and with that sense of having been forgiven. You know, don't try to worship God. Don't imagine that you can worship God while there are horrible things going on in your heart, while there's unconfessed sin.

while you're still harbouring these feelings of hatred towards your brother or sister. You know, don't try and do it because it's just not going to work. Which of the prophets was it who said, I hate, I despise your solemn feasts and assemblies. Sounds like Amos to me. We can put it in the show notes, can't we? So again, there's this thing about not doing one thing in worship and doing another thing in your life.

They've got to fit together, you know, they've got to be, yeah, they've got to work together. Yeah. Yeah, you have to think that he put it, he put the altar and the worship in there for a reason, because he could have just said, hey, as I'm saying this, if you remember that there's someone that you've bothered or annoyed or hurt, when I'm done, you should go, you should go fix that. But he brings in offering and worship into it, into the middle of that scenario. It must be for a reason.

Um, yeah, I think it's to, I think it's to exaggerate just how important it is to him. Like you think the most important thing you're doing for me is this offering, but actually you should just leave it. You should leave it and you should go be reconciled. I found the, um, the verse in Amos Mark that you're talking about. Oh, you did good. I hate, I despise your religious festivals. Sorry. It's Amos 5, 21 through 24. Okay. I hate, I despise your religious festivals. Your assemblies are a stench to me.

Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them. Away with the noise of your songs, I will not listen to the music of your harps, but let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never -ending stream. So yeah, I think he's saying the thing that I actually care about here is justice in this relationship and it's righteousness. So leave your offering, like.

He doesn't, Jesus doesn't say, I don't want it, but you can almost feel his, you can feel him trying to get them to understand the thing that I really care about is this forgiveness and this reconciliation in this situation. Yeah. And I do think that it's quite significant that he's saying, you know, if you've wronged someone, because I think we're quite good at thinking about other people who've wronged us and they're over there worshiping and they haven't been to me, you know, or perhaps.

I always find that, you know, church Sundays can be quite fraught for a family. I remember growing up, we quite often had little explosions trying to get out the door on time and then you get to church and then you're on your best behaviour. And it does sort of make me think of that scenario. But here he's saying, look, you take responsibility for the wrong that you have done. What can you proactively go and do to reconcile that situation?

to honour the person that you've dishonoured to make it right and then come to me with like, you know, the pure hands and the clean heart. That's so true, isn't it? And I thought it was interesting just as, Noel, you were reading the bit from Amos. I was listening to you thinking, yeah, this is fantastic. This is great. Let righteousness roll down like a river.

Amen, sister, I was thinking. But then you related to what Jesus says, and it's not just, Amos is not just a sort of generally inspiring quote about what the church ought to be doing, what the people of God ought to be doing. Go to the Sermon on the Mount, and it's about me. That's much harder, isn't it? That's where it really cuts through. Yeah, when you imagine God sort of looking at your offerings as a stench.

Yeah, that really comes across differently, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do we make of the next few verses? If someone brings a lawsuit against you and takes you to court, settle the dispute with him. Well, there's time before you get to court. Any thoughts about that?

Well, I've had some interesting... It really helped me reading a commentary on this because in the commentary, it was sort of saying that the language that's being used here, especially that bit at the end, truly I tell you, you'll not get out of prison, I guess, until you've paid the last penny. Maybe this is talking about a debt that you owe somebody. So it's sort of an unpaid debt.

And if you, you've got to pay that debt back, that's the only right thing to do. But are you going to allow yourself to be dragged through the courts and forced into it and, you know, suffer in paying that back? Or are you just going to do the right thing straight away and not have to be forced to do the right thing? Do you see what I mean? Yeah, it's about making friends, not making enemies.

isn't it? You know, just if you've got something wrong, just hold your hand up and admit it. Don't drag it out. Again, it's about grace. Everything's about grace. Yeah. Everything, if something is out in public like that, you know, not your wrongdoing is, you know, broadcast for everyone to see and to agree that yes, you're a terrible person because you've done this thing and your punishment is on public display and the

process, it's all sort of ugly, isn't it? When all you needed to do was address it with the person, make it right if you could. I don't know if these can be linked, but what you're saying Esther about taking about what you've just said and taking someone to court. This reminds me of this passage in 1 Corinthians and you guys can tell me if you think this is just way off, but it reminds me of when Paul says,

I found it, it's 1 Corinthians 6, 7. Paul says, the very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not let yourselves be cheated? It makes me think of this. So if I'm going to court with someone who's my adversary, this is a public, that's the thing that's happening publicly, right? People know we're going to court. And I just think about Paul saying, well, look, I don't know if this is how I read it, but Paul's saying, look how bad this makes.

us look as Christians, that we can't just sort things out before actually having to go and take them to court. And Paul's saying, well, why not just let yourself be cheated instead? Like, why not take the more humble road? And for me, coming from the States, I recently have heard of some different lawsuits that have happened in the Christian world, and I think about these verses. I know a lot of the scenarios can be different, different things are happening, but lawsuits among Christians, I feel like this is the very starting level where Jesus is saying, look,

listen, settle matters quickly. And Paul's saying, listen, just let yourself be cheated. Like, why can't you just let yourself be wronged by someone else for the sake of others? And that is really challenging, right? That I would let myself, let someone get away with something that I feel they've done wrong to me. Absolutely. That is super challenging. And, you know, you do kind of rebel against it. Why should somebody be allowed to get away with it?

I do think, though, again, it's sort of as important in the context of that one Corinthians example, is that I think that, again, appears to be talking about a situation with money. So I don't think there's necessarily a broad application that we should, because churches have really got into awkward situations with this, haven't they, where perhaps things that have happened have not been dealt with through the courts. You know, I think.

perhaps there is a more limited application to it. But yes, if you've lost some money, for example, to someone, they owe you something, especially because sometimes the amount of money might be quite small, but are you going to make a big stink about it? Are you going to drag this all out and expose all the ugliness? Or will you take that hit and be like, okay, I'll never loan money to that person again, but I'm not going to.

I just think it's important to say that. I think we've got to be careful. Is it talking about certain situations, not all, because it wouldn't be a good thing to let everything slide. No, no. It's about the principle of generosity, I think, isn't it? Where you can be generous, be generous. Don't stand on your dignity. Don't stand on your rights. Yeah, I mean, sometimes let yourself be disadvantaged. Let yourself be cheated.

because that's the right thing to do. But it's very challenging, it's very difficult. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back. All right, we're back. We're going to go ahead and read verses 27 through 30 now on adultery. Jesus says,

If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Question that screams at me is, is this literal? Are we to be taking this literally? I think obviously most Christians think not, but.

if we can discuss a bit about that.

Jack Morris (27:50.702)
Well, the fact that so many Christians are walking around with both eyes, both hands, I'd probably suggest that we're not taking it, literally. Well, perhaps Christians just aren't tempted like this. I mean, what do you think? Well, from my own experience, I would say I'm definitely guilty, but I still have both eyes and both hands. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think Jesus is...

literally telling us to, you know, cut bits of our bodies off. It's hyperbole, isn't it? He's saying, you know, if there are things that lead you into sin, then you cut those parts of your life off. So, you know, if there are particular places where you might be led into sin, don't go there.

in this internet age, if there are particular websites or whatever that are going to lead you into sin, don't go there. If there are toxic people in your life, you can have friends who are really, really positive, and you can have friends who are really, they're not good for you. And maybe that's the kind of thing he's thinking of.

And it might be a genuine friendship, but they are leading you down bad tracks. They're leading you down places that you shouldn't go. So maybe distance yourself from them. I mean, this is so interesting though, isn't it? Because I think, you know, so I think Jesus, you're right, is making another point about how serious it is, even if you don't actually commit adultery, if you're thinking these thoughts and...

And it's not so much necessarily that the thought would occur, but that you would indulge them, I guess. You know, entertain them and, you know, a thought turns into a fantasy. It just isn't going to lead to anything good. He's saying that this is really serious and it's so serious that actually you should take drastic action to cut it out of your life. But I'm sure I can't be the only one that it's who's experienced this. If you talk about that,

in society, people will think that you're a prude. Where do we find the right balance between maybe appearing to be very legalistic and or, you know, what are we supposed to do? Walk around with our eyes shut? Because it's not just like that program that I might watch. It's it's adverts. It's social media, even people's self -promotion on social media almost invites you to look at them in that way.

I don't know, it's so confusing because our whole society makes this extremely difficult.

Yeah, I mean, I agree. And I think one of the things that we as Christians probably need to get our heads around is just the idea of kind of trusting each other and recognising that everybody is different. One person might be able to watch a particular film or TV program and not be kind of

tainted or tempted by it, another person might have a completely different reaction. So part of it is knowing ourselves and part of it is respecting each other and not expecting everybody to have the same reaction to things or to behave the same way that we do.

I mean, Paul talks about this in his letters, doesn't he, in terms of meat offered to idols. And, you know, meat that was offered for sale in the market might first have been offered to idols, you know, as part of the slaughter process. Or if you go into somebody's house, for instance, then it might have been offered to an idol. And, you know,

He says slightly different things in different places, but he seems to land on leaving it up to people's conscience. And well, I was going to say not making a meal of it, but that would be too much of a terrible pun, wouldn't it? Well, he does also say, try not, you know, don't do something that you know will cause someone to stumble, doesn't it? It comes back to our personal responsibility. If we know that's something we're doing or...

particularly pursuing. I mean, I love books, for example. And if anybody told me, oh, well, you better not read that book. You better not read that book. I just don't think that would be workable for me. But if I'm reading something and I realise, okay, the whole intention behind this book is to encourage you to think about this kind of thing. And that isn't helpful for me. Yeah. That's a decision you personally can make. And it's not for you to say no one should read this book.

No. You know that I shouldn't read this book. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just the other thing to add is that I think some things are just categorically wrong, really. Right, yeah. It's not going to be a free for all where, you know, watch what you want, do what you want. You know, some things you can just say no. Yeah. Also, just thinking that, thinking about...

the renewing of the mind, that every Christian is probably in a different stage of having their mind renewed by the things of Christ. But thinking that if I renew my mind, I don't need to cut off my, I don't need to gouge out my eye, right? I am, I'm taking every thought captive. I'm thinking about things that please the spirit. My mind is being renewed by the things of Christ. Yeah, does that make sense? That's kind of what I think about when I think about this.

But I also thought about this verse. I just thought of it. It's in 1 Corinthians 6, 18. Paul actually says to run from sexual sin. I don't think there's any other sin that Paul specifically or anyone says to run from. There are lots that he says not to, you know, stay away from and things, but this one he seems to stress to run from it. I feel like Jesus is doing the same thing here. He's making such a big...

He's speaking in such great hyperbole as to say, this is a huge deal, like, take care of it, do something about it. Because in this passage in 1 Corinthians 6, Paul says, no other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. Well, not only that, but I guess in a Christian sense, we know that marriage is meant to be sort of this picture, isn't it, of how God relates to...

his people, there's something about his faithfulness and we're called to be faithful to him. And if, you know, it is a serious thing to break the covenant we make with each other. I mean, but what, so is this really then just about married people? Or do you think there's wide application here for those who are not married? Yeah, I don't think it's just married. And I also think it's interesting that this verse says,

anyone who looks at a woman lustfully. So it's almost as if Jesus is putting the responsibility for adultery on men, it seems, if anyone looks at a woman with lust. Do you think that's quite a cultural thing of the time? Because of, you know, I guess in those days, maybe there were more arranged marriages, for example, like a girl entering into marriage. Like, how did that?

about it wasn't necessarily the sort of love stories and the level of choice that we have today in terms of who we choose to marry. So do you think that could be a reason for it? Or is it to do with who is speaking to at that moment? I think that's really interesting. And I think I think all of that, but it does say something about power, doesn't it? And particularly, I think in that culture at the time,

men had more power than women and, you know, it's still the same today, only we're more conscious of it. So maybe he was speaking particularly to men because they were more likely to be the abusers. Because it's not just about what goes on in your head, is it? It's about what you actually do.

And yeah, he's stressing what goes on in your head, but thoughts lead to actions. And so perhaps, you know, he's warning men specifically because it's men who are more likely to abuse than women. I don't know. I mean, so I think there would be a truth in that. But obviously, when you look at Old Testament law,

the penalty for committing adultery was death. And that was for both people. So it, you know, it's... Yeah, but also I think of, and this is just one story, so yeah, you're right, Esther, but I think about the woman caught in adultery. Sure. The man is nowhere to be seen in that story, is he? But the woman is brought from being in the very act of having adultery in front of a group of men.

to be killed. So I do, I would think that women are definitely the ones who are being taken advantage of. But sorry, I hear what you're saying, Esther. I definitely think there is that cultural element and it's not as if, you know, as you were indicating, Mark, there still are power imbalances and situations today. But I definitely, I feel reading this, I don't see that it says, oh,

anyone who looks at a woman lustfully and think, oh, this isn't about me because I, because it's wrong to look lustfully at someone. And I know that I've done that. And so, and I know also going to your example from Corinthians, 1 Corinthians, that yeah, this is an incredible, like the impact of all of this on the family unit, in church families, in society.

whether you're a Christian or not, it's so damaging and poisonous. Well, and this is so countercultural as well, because I think more and more in society, where we've removed so many barriers around kind of sexual expression, there should be boundaries in the way that we relate to each other.

breaking all of those down and the results of it are not good. Yeah. Yeah. I think for me what comes out of this is the challenge not to indulge any thoughts that you might have about other people. And one of the commentaries I looked at,

made the point that there's a difference between a glance and a gaze. A glance is one thing, a momentary attraction is one thing, but actually indulging that is a different thing altogether. Even if it's just indulging it in your mind, that's a different thing altogether. And that's what Jesus seems to be warning against. There's an old saying I remember,

you can't stop the birds flying over your head, but you can stop them nesting in your hair. And I think that's what's being said here, really. Yeah, that's good. Well, we've gone into some pretty deep places here, I think, haven't we? Yes. It's been a fascinating passage to look at. And I think one of the things that we've seen is how important it is that we think about not just what we

do, but what's going on inside our heads and how we treat other people and just how we are in ourselves really, because Jesus is inviting us to look at how we are before God, not just about how we are in the eyes of other people. So, I think we've learned a lot. Hope you've enjoyed listening to us. Do send in your questions if you have any, and we'll see you next week.

You've been listening to the Rooted Podcast from Bible Society. We're a Christian organisation that translates, publishes, and distributes the Bible around the world. Visit our website, biblesociety .org .uk, to find out how you can get involved in Bible outreach and make a difference in the lives of thousands of people around the world.