The Rooted Podcast

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You're listening to the Rooted Podcast from Bible Society, a Christian organization that invites people to discover the life -giving power of the Bible. In each series, we dig deeper into a theme or book of the Bible and explore its message for us today. This is series one, Sermon on the Mount. Welcome back to the Rooted Podcast. We're here for the Q &A episode of the Sermon on the Mount series.

and we've got some really good questions. I'm here again with Mark and Esther, and we're going to try and get to as many of these as we can, and we're looking forward to it. Let's get into it. We've got our first question on the Sermon on the Mount. It's from Ruth, and she asked, how can you let others see your good deeds and glorify God, which we see in Matthew 5, verses 16 in the Sermon on the Mount, if Jesus also said, you should do everything in secret?

and that is in chapter six verses three through four. I think this is a really interesting question. I think the context of these two different verses is quite important in answering the question. In chapter five, it's that little section that's talking about being salt and light in the world. And it's, you know, when we're living for God in that sense,

people can see that, they can experience it in their interactions with us. They're blessed by us and by the way we conduct ourselves in the world and that hopefully points them to God and gives them reason to praise God. Whereas chapter six, that is talking about kind of like how we give to the needy. So, and it's telling us not to do it hypocritically. You know, if we just gave to the needy, as in,

being salt and light, for example, like I described, then they would be blessed by that, wouldn't they? That's great for them. And, you know, it might lead them to praise God who's taking care of them through his people. But if we kind of announce our giving with trumpets, that's the way it describes it in Chapter six, verses three and four, then we're not doing it for God's glory. We're not even doing it to comfort the needy person. We're doing it for ourselves.

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that people will look at us and say, oh, aren't you brilliant? And, you know, that's where that repeated phrase of like, you've received your reward in full comes in. So I think really, I don't think there's a contradiction in those two things. People seeing the goodness God's people bring into the world and appreciating the light shining in the darkness is different from showing off our actions for our own personal gain. So I think it's kind of saying shine.

but don't broadcast. Another great question we had was from Joe. Joe asks, in Matthew 5 verses 27 to 30, Jesus teaches a very strong message warning against lust. And yet in John 8, we see him dealing really mercifully with the woman caught in adultery. So how do his actions in John chapter 8 support his message in the Sermon on the Mount rather than undermine it? So it's a really good question. I like it. Yeah.

I think this is a great question. One of the interesting things about this is that the whole story is not in some of the earliest manuscripts of the Bible. So if you look in your Bibles, you'll probably see it in a different font or maybe in a footnote with a note saying, oh, this story is not in the earliest and best manuscripts. And that's really true. And actually in some of the earliest manuscripts, it's in different places. So it might be in different places in John 1.

manuscript actually has it in Luke. So it looks as though the early Christians really had a problem with this. And St Augustine in the fourth century suggested that this was because the copyists really had a problem with Jesus forgiving adultery. And he thought that people just couldn't bear to think of Jesus forgiving such a serious thing.

sin. And so they didn't want to include a story like this in the earliest versions of the Bible. So that's St. Augustine suggesting that. And he, of course, thought that it was a genuine Jesus story. So you can see that it's a great question if even St. Augustine is asking it. Another interesting thing is about the story itself because there's kind of a gaping hole in it. And the gaping hole is, well, where is the man?

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she's taken in the act of adultery, where is the man in the case? And this speaks, it seems to me, of a potential power imbalance there. So I think there's more going on here than meets the eye. Maybe the man that she was committing adultery with was perhaps a Roman soldier, in which case he couldn't possibly have been brought under

Jewish law, or maybe it was a Pharisee. So, you know, it might have been the case that there was such a power imbalance there that they could focus their anger on her, but the person that she was committing adultery with was of a different status, and so they couldn't get him. They couldn't get him, so they got her. So, obviously, Jesus says at the end of that, go and sin no more.

The interesting thing there is that in John 5, he says exactly the same to the man who was healed at the pool of Bethesda. And in that story, there's no connection at all with any sinful action of his. So, you know, it might just be something that he says. Go and sin no more. Well, we're all sinful, aren't we? So he might not actually have been connecting that command to go and sin no more with her act of adultery.

particularly if she was maybe coerced into it. So there's a lot going on here. It's an absolutely fascinating story. But I think what I've said so far maybe implies that if she had been just a sort of conventional adulteress who had fallen madly in love or lust with a man who was not her husband and gone out and had a wild and passionate affair,

Maybe he wouldn't have forgiven her, whereas if she were coerced into it, then okay, then he'll forgive her. But I think that is completely missing the point, because the whole point is about grace. It's all about Jesus forgiving us, even when we do things that are absolutely terrible. And that's the point of forgiveness, isn't it? That's the point of grace. Even the worst of us can be forgiven and restored by

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the grace of God. And, you know, we tend to write people's sins in concrete and Jesus writes them in sand. And I think that's the point of that story. I was actually going to ask when you were done if you had any thoughts on the sand writing. So, there you go. Yeah, well, that's one suggestion that, you know, maybe he was writing her sins in the sand.

and writing her punishment in the sand, you know, this woman is an adulterous, this woman is to be stoned. It says that her accusers began to walk away beginning with the oldest. I always think it's the oldest who leave first because they know how much sin there is in their own lives because they've had longer to sin. And if you're there in a dusty marketplace, you know, what's going to happen if somebody's written in the sand? Well, your feet are just going to...

it rains it, aren't they? So there's nothing left. I think it's a wonderful story, it's a beautiful story. Oh, I agree. And I mean, just going back to the original question, though, I did have some thoughts about how you can read those two passages together. Like Matthew 5, 27 to 30, it's sort of pointing out, isn't it, the seriousness of even indulging, entertaining, lustful thoughts.

So even if you don't actually go on to commit adultery, you have committed adultery in your heart, so you're guilty even though you might not be dragged into the temple courts and a law book be held up to say you should be stoned. Jesus is saying in that sense you are guilty anyway. And I think the message in there is like, look, take drastic action not to indulge that sin, repent, don't be complacent, don't end up far from God, turn to him.

So that message of repentance and sort of grace is in there. I think one thing about that John 8 story that stands out to me that we haven't talked about is that it says there that the Pharisees are trying to trap Jesus by coming to him with this question. It seems, if you focus on that detail, that they don't really care about this woman and her sin. They're trying to trap Jesus by asking him a question about the law.

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and how it should be upheld. You know, Jesus doesn't question the evidence for this woman. It's not really a court scene in that sense, but he questions the Pharisees about whether they've sinned and whether they actually want the judgment of the law to be upheld against them. And I think that they slink away because, yes, they know they're sinful and they don't want the law to be carried out on them. So it's about their

hypocrisy really. I think in my translation it says that Jesus tells the women go away and leave your life of sin and I think given that he's kind of pointed out to the Pharisees that they've sinned, I do think that that question about sin and leaving your life of sin, repenting is important and that kind of then points back to chapter five.

in Matthew, because it's like the words of Matthew 5 .27 could directly relate to that woman at that point. Run away from this life of sin now. Don't stay far from God. Come close. Receive that grace. So I think there is actually a beautiful sort of symmetry and connection between them. Let's move to the next question. We've got a really interesting one from James, who's basically asked us about

The difference between the Sermon on the Plain in Luke and the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, are these two passages whole sermons with similar content but preached in different places? Or are they both compilations of Jesus' various teaching material that Matthew and Luke have put together as a sample of Jesus' preaching?

I don't know if we've sort of made a rod for our own backs with the way that we sort of add subheadings to sections of the Bible by calling, saying, oh, this is the Sermon on the Mount in one in Matthew and then calling it the Sermon on the Plain in Luke, because I don't, that's not actually in the original text. It's sort of been added later. And if you flip back and forth between Matthew and Luke, the same kind of stories appear.

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before and after. In Matthew, Jesus goes up onto the mountainside, the disciples there, he begins to teach them. In Luke, it says he goes up onto a mountain to pray and he spends the night in prayer and then he calls the disciples to him and commissions the 12 apostles and then they go down and he starts preaching this. So there's actually a lot of similarities and even like right at the end of it, both of them end with the foolish and wise builder.

and then go into a section where there's more healing and the faith of the centurion. So there's a lot of similarity between the stories either side, it seems to suggest. It probably is like two people giving their personal accounts of maybe a same event.

I mean, I don't think anybody knows, to be perfectly honest. So that's possible, that it's two people giving the same, giving slightly different accounts of the same events. It's possible that, you know, there was a collection of sayings of Jesus that Matthew told one way and Luke told a slightly different way. But it's not something, to be honest, that I've never ever been particularly troubled by myself. I'm not dismissing it at all. I suppose I just think, well,

you read Luke and you think, right, what is Jesus saying here? And if you read Matthew alongside that, it might shed some light on what he's saying in Luke or vice versa as well. But the important thing is that these are the words of Jesus. So what is Jesus saying to us today? When you read a lot of biographies today and people are writing biographies about other people, right, they, in a way, they are trying to tell a story about the person that they're writing.

And they choose to include certain things and they choose to omit certain things. And that is because they're trying to show the person in a certain way. And I think the gospel writers have done that with Jesus. I think they're each trying to say a different thing about him. And as a result, they've each included different things in their biographies of Jesus. And I think there's something that can be uncomfortable about that. But there's something that we need to...

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accept about it is that the Bible is trying to tell a story and so there are contradictions and there are different writers who have put things differently. Well, I think, isn't there also a point actually, you know, why do we have four different gospel accounts and how does that add to the credibility of those eyewitness or, you know, those accounts from each of those people?

I think it was Andrew Ollerton in the Bible course content and also he's been on this podcast called Trusting the Bible that I think was produced by Tyndale talking about the fact that the accounts are slightly different. Should this reduce our confidence in the truth of what they're saying or does it in fact actually increase our confidence? Because if they all said word for word exactly the same thing, then you think there's sort of been collusion. They've sat down, they've got their story straight together.

they've all said exactly the same thing, but we all know, we I'm sure we've all been at an event, for example, been in different parts of the room, seen maybe the same thing as our friend, but from a different thing. And we've remembered it slightly differently. And that, that's authentic. That is authentic. Eyewitness experience of an event. You wouldn't necessarily pick up on all the same things. Yeah, I think that's true.

And I think the other thing to say is that, well, two things really. I mean, firstly, that there was a way of writing biography in the first century, which is not our way of writing biography today, you know, and the literary conventions were different. The other thing is just to remember that what we have in the New Testament are not the actual words of Jesus, and they can't be because Jesus spoke in Aramaic and the New Testament's written in Greek. So, you know, it's

It's all translated. It's all translated from the very start. And that just adds a layer of interpretation to everything that we're actually seeing in front of us. But, you know, I tend to go back and think, right, what is Jesus saying in the here and now to me? Our next question is from Joe, who asks, how did Jesus's teachings against retaliation in Matthew 5 verses 38 through 42?

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line up with his radical heart for justice. This one's really good. We did touch a bit on retaliation. We talked about a bit of how what Jesus suggests in these passages is a form of resistance, sort of non -violent resistance that really works. But when we think about justice, we do all kind of want to see that. I saw this question and I thought, oh, perfect, because I recently read a story by Tolstoy that...

actually talks about this. It's a really good illustration, but basically the story goes that there's a peasant who has a field and he goes out to plow his field. And as he's plowing it, he sees that there's a demon waist deep in the mud in his field. And he goes, oh no, there's a demon in my field. I've got to get it out. So he goes back and he gets the strongest rope he can find and he wraps it around the demon and he tries to pull the demon out of the field. And as he does, he hurts his back.

So he stops, he goes to his neighbor and he asks if he can borrow their horse. He gets the horse and he gets a chain and he ties the chain around the demon and ties the chain to the horse and gets the horse to try and pull the demon out. And he injures the horse and he breaks the chain and he's, oh my goodness, so now he's in debt to his neighbor. And in order to pay the debt to the neighbor, he has to send his daughter into serfdom.

He sends his daughter into serfdom so that he can pay off the neighbor. By this time, winter has come. He's cold, he's poor, he has no money, and he's basically starving to death. Tolstoy asks the question, why didn't he just plow around the demon and keep on his way? And it's speaking about these words of Jesus, do not resist an evil person. Do not resist an evil person. And I think what we do as Christians a lot of the time, sadly,

is that we see an evil in the world and we throw all of our energy and all of our resource and all of our time into trying to fix that evil thing that we see. And it's almost like Jesus is saying or Tolstoy is saying, you're making it worse. If you'd have actually not done that, you wouldn't be starving right now, you'd have plowed your field. And so I think it's interesting, because I think -

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I think our understanding of justice in this situation is we need to resist and we need to make sure this evil is taken care of and that is justice. When Jesus actually has a different understanding of what that means and what he presents us with in the Sermon on the Mount is a different understanding of resistance really that isn't violent and that is actually a more loving way of life really.

I think we can all see, like, our attempts at bringing about justice are not perfect. You know, it's not to say that we shouldn't be people that are interested in justice and bringing it about, but we are not the perfect bringers of justice, whereas God is. I really like that story as well, and it reminded me of the famous serenity prayer, actually. God give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. And I think that's quite relevant to something like this actually, because there are things that we should jolly well stand up against and there are things that we should fight for and try and change and, and, and we're wrong if we don't take a stand, but just just roll down like a river, that sort of thing, Amos. Um, but sometimes, yeah.

We just need to be wise and say, right, this one's too big for me. I'm going to plough around the demon and leave him there. Yeah. And trust that ultimately, ultimate justice will be enacted by God. Yeah. All right. We've got another question and it is from Kate, who asks, how can we understand and communicate the passages on worry in the Sermon on the Mount?

in light of the cost of living crisis. It's quite interesting. So bringing passages where Jesus says, don't worry about what you'll eat or what you'll wear into today's context. Looking at that passage, I don't really get the sense from it that it is actually speaking to people in dire financial straits. I don't think this is kind of a glib response to people's poverty and suffering that, oh, just don't worry about it. God knows what you need and He'll give it to you.

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I think this is more talking about like the average person whose head is just stuffed with worries and anxieties about things that don't really matter. I mean, if I go on Instagram and I look at all of the ads that are targeted at me, it's all about food, it's all about clothing, it's all about, you know, how am I going to get rid of all these wrinkles on my face, you know, and beautify myself.

and, oh, my clothes are rubbish, I can't possibly go out. If only I could look like this, then I'd be successful in the world. And I think, you know, he says in verse 32 of that passage, the pagans are running after these things, but you're not a pagan, you're in the kingdom of God. This is what you should be setting your mind on. Seek first the kingdom of God and all these other things will be given to you. So, yeah, I think it's more about us having our minds set.

on things that are worthwhile and fruitful in the kingdom, then it is really about how we might be struggling in the cost of living crisis. Yeah, I agree with that. I think there are times when it's perfectly normal and right to worry. There are times when we have to face reality and reality is sometimes really hard. I've been in positions certainly where you don't know which bill to pay and one of them is going to go unpaid.

And it's really tough sometimes. And it wouldn't be right not to worry because you wouldn't be facing reality. Though at the same time you can have that basic overall trust that God will not let you down. And I think that's okay. But I think you're absolutely right. I mean, he's aiming at the spirit of competition and the whole consumer culture thing. And I don't know if they had...

Well, they probably did have advertising billboards and things like that, didn't they, back in Jesus' day? Certainly in the cities, people would be trying to sell you things. And so there's this constant appeal to want more and to have more and to be more beautiful or stronger or better equipped than your neighbour. I think that's what he's talking about. I think to some of the basis for the reason that we shouldn't have to worry is...

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not just found in Christ, but found in the fact that we're part of a church and the church is called to take care of one another. So even a few verses later is the one where it says, give to those who ask and don't turn away from those who want to borrow. And then we see an ax that the church, after they're filled with the Holy Spirit, it says that they shared all things in common and no one was in need among them. So it kind of makes me think that if I knew of someone in my church who was struggling and worrying about.

money because of the cost of living crisis. That responsibility, according to Scripture, I would say, in some sense, is coming on the church. Or in any situation, even if it's not the cost of living crisis, I do think that as the church, we've placed that responsibility on the government, or we've placed that responsibility in other places, when I think in Scripture it falls on us. I actually heard of a friend who had a friend who...

He was working for the Department of Defence in the United States, and he decided that as a follower of Jesus, he could no longer do that. He felt convicted for what he was doing. And he said, I'm going to quit my job at the Department of Defence. But him and his wife were quite worried about the financial toll that would take on them. And that had been his whole career, so he wasn't quite sure how he was going to switch jobs or where he was going to work. And there are people in his church who came around him and said, we support this decision.

that you're making and we're actually going to financially support you while you are making this change. I think that's beautiful because I would say that is our job. If we're going to say, yeah, you should care about this thing, then when someone actually does something to care about it, then I think we should support them. Last question we'll answer is from Ruth, who's asked, if you're already married to a divorced woman,

Are you continually committing adultery? And what should you do about it? Obviously a very sensitive question. Yeah, and this is also found in, his teaching is also found in Luke 16 and in Mark 10 as well. So Luke 16, anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery. Mark 10, anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. If she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.

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And I actually wrote an article about this for Rooted and I think we can put a link in the show notes to it. I think it really helps if we know something about the context behind the discussion, because there were two schools of thought back then. One was very liberal. You could divorce your wife for any cause. So if she burnt the toast, for instance, right, that was it. Off you go.

and the other was much, much stricter. Jesus was aligning himself with the stricter one. And I think in the verses that we've heard, the context is the reason for the divorce. So, the sense would be if you divorce your wife in order to marry another woman, then you are committing adultery.

Most people at the time agreed that there were grounds for divorce. And I don't think anybody today would say, I hope nobody today would say that somebody ought to stay in a marriage where there is abuse, for instance. We understand a lot more about coercive control, all of that kind of thing. So I think personally that there are valid grounds for ending marriages. And if marriages are

ended that implies that somebody is free to marry again. I think that it gets complicated, more morally complicated, where somebody might divorce their husband in order to marry another man. And the question then is, can a marriage which has that sort of beginning actually be blessed by God? Can people flourish?

spiritually within a marriage like that. And because I am a great believer in the grace of God, I'm a great believer in God's forgiveness, personally I think the answer has to be yes. But as with any kind of sin, there has to be a recognition of what's gone wrong and what we've done wrong and repentance. But there can be forgiveness. Of course there can. So, in today's context,

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if the question is, if someone is married to a divorced woman, is that person then committing adultery according to what Jesus has said? Because I think what you've said about context is really important, but if we think about today's context, we're no longer in that place. Basically, I think there are lots of Christians who are divorced and they read this verse and they think either, well, this means I can't remarry, or they think,

I'm living in sin because I'm now remarried and I've just read this verse and oh no, what am I going to do now? I think it's really interesting because I don't think that means we do away with Jesus' words. I don't think we can just go, oh, that's not what he meant. But I think you're right too, that there is abundant grace and look at how he treats the woman caught in adultery. And I was even thinking today.

If God can bless the nation of Israel, like if you read the book of Genesis, the nation of Israel is a mess. They are, that family, like that nation is built on the worst of relationships, the unhealthiest. Like you couldn't think that God would be approving those relationships and yet God blesses that nation in the end and he stays with them and he sticks with them. So I think.

even if you find yourself in a marriage, or even if you find yourself divorced or in a marriage that after being divorced and you feel awful about it, I just don't think that removes the blessing of God. I don't think it removes the grace of God. Like you're saying, there is forgiveness for everyone. I would emphasize what Mark has said about grace, because adultery is one example, but there's many other sins.

sexual sins, for example, that can impact a marriage before you get into a marriage and, you know, all of those things. And then I think that clearly sort of New Testament teaching, it really talks about grace, the blood of Jesus covering those sins and us being forgiven. I think what he, I think he emphasizes something in this passage about the importance of marriage, though, the importance of that covenant that you make, that we shouldn't enter into marriages lightly.

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that when we're in them there's a huge responsibility to each other and it's meant to be a lifelong commitment. I think he's equally making a point about divorce to say that divorce shouldn't be entered into lightly. Divorce has a huge impact. It's not like, oh well, this just isn't for me anymore. That shows kind of a wrong attitude towards your spouse but also towards what marriage is, what the covenant is that you entered into. So I think

this is about how we view as Christians marriage, divorce, and all of that, more than it is even about what we might have done or not done, and whether there's grace for us or not. And I believe there is grace. Yeah, it's such a sensitive area, isn't it? Because people listening have got all sorts of different experiences, and I don't think we're going to answer all the questions about marriage and divorce.

that people might have just in the answer to one question on our little podcast, to be honest. But I think what all three of us are saying really is that there is grace and there is forgiveness and there is hope. You know, anybody who is listening to this who is going through a tough time or is asking questions about this, reach out, get help, do some thinking, do some reading. Yeah, God's there. That's all the questions we're going to answer today. So we'll see you for our next series.

which is going to be all about the book of Philippians and we're very much looking forward to it. If you'd like to leave us a rating or a review, please do so. We'd very much appreciate it. And that's it. So I'll see you for the next series of the podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Rooted Podcast. To find out more about Bible Society's mission to invite people to discover the Bible for themselves in England, Wales and around the world, visit biblesociety .org .uk.